40% Turbo Laser (scratch built)

[jaguar bone]

	Quote: Originally Posted by forgues research
	The difference is 2024 rather then 6061, but my knowledge is limited on the difference of these two aluminum, so I will let Jack chime in here and let him explain. Calling Jack, calling Jack Roger

My experience with the different alloys is pretty limited.
I know the total composition of alloy can also make a difference too. Not all aluminum alloy is created the same either. To prove this confirm this point, my W-2 job makes their own billets and controls their 6061 purity 99%. YKK will not use any scrap or recycled alum that was not created in their own facility. I believe this purity control results in an ability to provide a predictable and consistent quality controlled Architectural finish.

Ha! may have found my own answer! I'll have to analyze later- gotta run.
http://www.unitedaluminum.com/aaa.php

[flyin4fun]

Roger,
Please DO NOT leave FG.
You ARE a true craftsman.
I have closely watched your 34% Turbo Laser come to life .
Very informative
I also watched your crafting of your fuel dots, And your making of your own propellors.
And I THANK you for taking the time to post on these items (among others)
A TRUE scratch build is something of a dying art.
SOME SHOULD appreciate the enginuity and thought that goes into your builds.
and NOT question your research , planning, and craftsmanship.
It is ideas like yours , some might think out of the ordinary, that have made our hobby what it is today.
I am going to assume that SOME of the negative posters have mostly ONLY assembled ARF's , that's right "ASSEMBLED" , because (to me anyway) an ARF is NOT a "BUILD".
I want to thank you for ALL the posts you have made, whether they are of your own thread or helping a fellow giant out with a problem he may have with his thread.
I only hope to continue to read posts made by you.
My only suggestion to you is, just close your eyes to the negative posts made by others.
Please continue posting of your 40% build, I am looking forward to see it come to life too.
Thanks again for taking time to post on your build.
Doug
AMA 178602

[forgues research]

	Quote: Originally Posted by flyin4fun
	Roger, Please DO NOT leave FG. You ARE a true craftsman. I have closely watched your 34% Turbo Laser come to life . Very informative I also watched your crafting of your fuel dots, And your making of your own propellors. And I THANK you for taking the time to post on these items (among others) A TRUE scratch build is something of a dying art. SOME SHOULD appreciate the enginuity and thought that goes into your builds. and NOT question your research , planning, and craftsmanship. It is ideas like yours , some might think out of the ordinary, that have made our hobby what it is today. I am going to assume that SOME of the negative posters have mostly ONLY assembled ARF's , that's right "ASSEMBLED" , because (to me anyway) an ARF is NOT a "BUILD". I want to thank you for ALL the posts you have made, whether they are of your own thread or helping a fellow giant out with a problem he may have with his thread. I only hope to continue to read posts made by you. My only suggestion to you is, just close your eyes to the negative posts made by others. Please continue posting of your 40% build, I am looking forward to see it come to life too. Thanks again for taking time to post on your build. Doug AMA 178602

Thanks Doug,
you are a true gentleman and I decided to continue posting on the 40% . Although a lot will be some sort of repeat of the 34%, I will continue to hopefully improve with the 40%.

This time I am building two of them in parallel and hope they will be ready for covering by September or October, because I am putting together not build , a comp arf Eurofighter Jet for my good friend Hayes Hutchins, during the winter.

Roger

[askforplanes]

	Quote: Originally Posted by forgues research
	Thanks Doug, you are a true gentleman and I decided to continue posting on the 40% . Although a lot will be some sort of repeat of the 34%, I will continue to hopefully improve with the 40%. This time I am building two of them in parallel and hope they will be ready for covering by September or October, because I am putting together not build , a comp arf Eurofighter Jet for my good friend Hayes Hutchins, during the winter. Roger

Is that the comp-arf in the background of the landing gear picture?

JP

[forgues research]

	Quote: Originally Posted by askforplanes
	Is that the comp-arf in the background of the landing gear picture? JP

OOPS, you noticed, yes it is
Roger

[forgues research]

A few wise words to start the day ,

No pessimist ever discovered the secret of the stars or sailed to an uncharted land or opened a new heaven to the human spirit.
- Helen Keller

Thought it would be a good start of the day

Roger

[forgues research]

Not much done but I did find a lady neighbor that is very technically inclined and she will be helping me with cutting the wing panels. so I won't have to wait so long as I did because my flying buddy could only come over once a week.

So here are a few pics.

Roger

[jack strickland]

	Quote: Originally Posted by forgues research
	The difference is 2024 rather then 6061, but my knowledge is limited on the difference of these two aluminum, so I will let Jack chime in here and let him explain. Calling Jack, calling Jack Roger

Hi Roger
Was planning on NOT posting on any thread on F.G. because of all the people on here trying to prove one WRONG all the time. You know who you are!!! However I will answer the question for you Roger. The T number is the amount of tempering in the material, alumunum in this case, ie, aligning the molecules in a more linear mode. So refering to aluminum as T-6 as being the standard temper and metal to use for landing gear is not a valid statement. The material aluminum is made from is alloyed with various elements to achevieve the hardness desired. 2024 is considered AIRCRAFT ALUMINUM, Ie. for exterior covering. 6061 is considered fixturing alu. and is never used for skins on planes, as a matter of fact a friend purchased a landing gear for a full size One Design, and it was 2024-t4. Have found that larger radius bends must be made on 2024 so as not to stress the material and have it crack. One can bend soft 6061 without a radius without breaking. Tried to bend 7075 one time and no radius I tried would prevent cracking/breaking. Am told by metalurgest that it must be detempered, by heat, bent then retempered. This procedure is beyond my model shop capabilities and is unnecessary because 2024 works extremely well, however a modeler if a builder wants the lightest gear with the most strength, 7075 is the way to go. Have not tried this, so its just my opinion. I assume the gear for the 40% laser could be as small as 1/8 inch, but it may not take shock very well. Sorry for the long post, but am trying to avoid any negative comments, and I WILL NOT RESPOND TO ANY. Cheers roger , and am glad you are continuing the $0% Laser build thread.

Sorry to be bitter, but I feel the moderators should respond better to all the negative people on here, and I am not talking about constructive comments, just the ones with the "I have not seen this therefore it cannot be the truth". Don't know of any one who cannot learn from others, its called ignorance, which can be fixed with education, but "You cannot fix STUPID."

[forgues research]

	Quote: Originally Posted by jack strickland
	Hi Roger Was planning on NOT posting on any thread on F.G. because of all the people on here trying to prove one WRONG all the time. You know who you are!!! However I will answer the question for you Roger. The T number is the amount of tempering in the material, alumunum in this case, ie, aligning the molecules in a more linear mode. So refering to aluminum as T-6 as being the standard temper and metal to use for landing gear is not a valid statement. The material aluminum is made from is alloyed with various elements to achevieve the hardness desired. 2024 is considered AIRCRAFT ALUMINUM, Ie. for exterior covering. 6061 is considered fixturing alu. and is never used for skins on planes, as a matter of fact a friend purchased a landing gear for a full size One Design, and it was 2024-t4. Have found that larger radius bends must be made on 2024 so as not to stress the material and have it crack. One can bend soft 6061 without a radius without breaking. Tried to bend 7075 one time and no radius I tried would prevent cracking/breaking. Am told by metalurgest that it must be detempered, by heat, bent then retempered. This procedure is beyond my model shop capabilities and is unnecessary because 2024 works extremely well, however a modeler if a builder wants the lightest gear with the most strength, 7075 is the way to go. Have not tried this, so its just my opinion. I assume the gear for the 40% laser could be as small as 1/8 inch, but it may not take shock very well. Sorry for the long post, but am trying to avoid any negative comments, and I WILL NOT RESPOND TO ANY. Cheers roger , and am glad you are continuing the $0% Laser build thread. Sorry to be bitter, but I feel the moderators should respond better to all the negative people on here, and I am not talking about constructive comments, just the ones with the "I have not seen this therefore it cannot be the truth". Don't know of any one who cannot learn from others, its called ignorance, which can be fixed with education, but "You cannot fix STUPID."

Thanks Jack for the information,

I beleive one company is making 2024 landing gears and they machine away some material to keep them light, which in my opinion is way better then carbon fiber landing gear.

Just my opinion.

Roger

[jack strickland]

Did not read the informative link Roger posted previously about aluminum strength. It tell the story better than my explanation.

[askforplanes]

Great explanation! ($0% what's that?, just messing with you.)

JP

[tonyc9075]

	Quote: Originally Posted by forgues research
	Thanks Jack for the information, I beleive one company is making 2024 landing gears and they machine away some material to keep them light, which in my opinion is way better then carbon fiber landing gear. Just my opinion. Roger

Roger, you may be thinking of TNT Landing gear, they do make nice gear but its not 2024. Its 6061, they tried 2024 and had problems doing the radis bend.
Jack is the master of bending 2024 and I need to upgrade by Laser with a set of his landing gear.

[forgues research]

Just assembling some contest grade balsa, 3/32*3*36 so I have lay them out like brick work not the have the joint s lined up, also I made sure the joints are in the middle of a rib .

Roger

[forgues research]

	Quote: Originally Posted by tonyc9075
	Roger, you may be thinking of TNT Landing gear, they do make nice gear but its not 2024. Its 6061, they tried 2024 and had problems doing the radis bend. Jack is the master of bending 2024 and I need to upgrade by Laser with a set of his landing gear.

Really hmmm, my mistake, I thought for sure they were doing 2024 but you're right, if they don't adapt to radius bends its not going to work.

Let Jack do it , he's the master and his prices are good.

Roger

[BTerry]

	Quote: Originally Posted by jack strickland
	Sorry to be bitter, but I feel the moderators should respond better to all the negative people on here, and I am not talking about constructive comments, just the ones with the "I have not seen this therefore it cannot be the truth". Don't know of any one who cannot learn from others, its called ignorance, which can be fixed with education, but "You cannot fix STUPID."

Well stated Jack. This is the reason so few honest, upright, moral, honorable, and capable people become politicians. People with the qualities we apply to the "Statesmen" of the past see politics isn't worth the effort and personal attacks caused by naysayers. The modern George Washingtons, Thomas Jeffersons, John Adamses, Patrick Henrys, Daniel Websters, and Benjamin Franklins (among countless others...) of today don't want to sully their reputations and trade away their souls for power in that cesspool, and prefer to remain anonymous.

Roger, I need to tell you that the construction pictures and your build threads are immensely enjoyable and even inspiring. Seeing the systematic construction steps convinces me that I can scratch build a plane like this myself someday. I plan to build a 40% Laser in the next few years based almost exclusively on watching the progress on your build threads.

I grew up building those horrible Guillows and Comet kits and absolutely loved them. However in the last 15 years I have only built a couple of small sailplanes and an electric pylon racer from kits, although I have assembled a bunch of big ARFs or purchased used planes ready to fly.

In the same time, however, I scratch built a few electric race boats and a couple of 1/2A rc planes. These scratch built models in many ways are much more enjoyable than even flying my big planes because I "brought them to life" with my own two hands.

When I was in High School I wanted to build a full-scale plane, maybe a Christen Eagle or even a Falco (an Italian, drop-dead sexy airplane), but quickly realized it would be an extremely time-consuming process. As I grew older and gained more responsibilities (wife, kids, job, etc) I also grew a larger "fear of death" because so many people depend upon me for sustenance and support. Also some medical complications precluded me from obtaining a medical certificate so my dream of becoming a pilot vanished and in many ways broke my heart. However RC flying came to replace the dream.

I was able to see Leo Loudenslager fly several times but the performance at the 1996 Reno Air Races sticks out in my mind. An anonymous stranger gave us a stack of corporate pit passes so we sat in the pit bleachers are were able to walk around the pits and talk to the pilots. Leo was enormously entertaining with his intense performance. However he was also a down-to-earth guy despite the rockstar aura surrounding him. Sadly seven short months later he was in the motorcycle crash that eventually took him.

That tiny little plane with the tiny little engine was just astounding to me. Compared to the fire-breathing Extras and Edges with nearly twice the horsepower, the Laser just seemed so much more nimble and "fun" to fly. The home-built aspect of the full-scale plane also lent an organic, barnstorming feel to Leo's plane when compared to the factory-produced, extensively-corporate-sponsored Extras and Edges on the circuit today. Further, the Laser is universally recognized yet is simultaneously extremely rare at the flying field.

Having seen Leo's Laser 200 in person at the Udvar-Hazy Museum as well as Joann Osterud's Stephens Akro at the Boeing Museum of Flight I am continually drawn back to the simple lines of the plane.

I am looking forward to this build thread and can't wait to see the final outcome (as well as the process along the way). I am trying to find a way to fit a table saw, drill press, and maybe a bandsaw into my garage along the way. Then hopefully I can follow your lead as it were.

Please continue!

Brett