Evo 116gx Brisk plug problems - They're Back ...

[cowtown flyer]

First off, I want to thank Horizon, and in particular Mike McConville for getting me back in the air after the Brisk plugs backed out of the Evolution 116GX stripping the threads in the cylinder and ultimately causing damage to my H9 260. Horizon repaired the engine and supplied replacement parts for the plane.

Unfortunately, the same problem occured today. The engine quit due problems with the Evolution / MVVS / ZDZ plug cap setup. Another deadstick in the same place with the same damage to the airframe.

This time, I had my camera with me, so I made a video outlining the problem. I'm going to try and post the video here, as well as on YouTube under the handle "cowtownflyer".

YouTube - Evolution 116GX Brisk Plug Failure

If anybody has any comments or suggestions or how to fix this problem, please reply. My flying season is being cut very short due to what I believe to be a faulty engineering design. I can't believe the trouble I'm having with this engine - it's not the engine, it's the plug design.



Thanks, Jim

[rcign]

The fix is 2 NGK BPMR6F spark plugs and a new RC EXL ignition re timed at 28....NO cups under the spark plugs, no setscrews...And NO battery over 6 volts, PERIOD.....
If the BPMR plugs are too long you can use BMR6F spark plugs....
Or if you want narrower, you can get 14mm to 10mm adapters and use CM6 spark plugs...Same ignition, shorter caps, same result, narrower engine...

[Altavillan]

On my zdz (same type of cap) I slotted the set screw and tie wired it. Thats all you need to do for the plug wires coming off.
Next I'd get rid of those spindly standoffs and make some hardwood dowel mounts. That 116 is way too powerful for that type of mounting. Then I'd get some plastic wire hold downs and attatch the loose portion of the plug wires to the engine box so there's something keeping the plug wires from flopping around.
Then I'd balance the prop and make darn sure it's tight before each flight.
Thats all I can think of for now.

[cowtown flyer]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Altavillan
	On my zdz (same type of cap) I slotted the set screw and tie wired it. Thats all you need to do for the plug wires coming off. Next I'd get rid of those spindly standoffs and make some hardwood dowel mounts. That 116 is way too powerful for that type of mounting. Then I'd get some plastic wire hold downs and attatch the loose portion of the plug wires to the engine box so there's something keeping the plug wires from flopping around. Then I'd balance the prop and make darn sure it's tight before each flight. Thats all I can think of for now.

I appreciate what you're saying, but the problems I'm having are what's going on inside that "bucket" that you can't see. If you watch the video, evrything is tight. It's the seal of the plug that's the problem. I don't have any vibration problems with the mounts. And when it's running, that engine is fantastic.

RCIGN has the solution, change the caps. I really don't want to screw around with changing the head for the NGK plug. I had contacted Brisk about seeing if they had a "normal" cap for those plugs - but no luck.

To me, Evolution / MVVS should be held responsible for this. It's not really a Horizon problem. I think it's just a bad design from the get go.

[rcign]

You can change just the caps..C&H and myself have the caps...You can't use 3W or DA caps without an adapter for the CM6 spark plugs....With new caps you need new spark plugs with the metal tops still in place..The RC EXL caps will NOT come off easily....

[cowtown flyer]

	Quote: Originally Posted by rcign
	You can change just the caps..C&H and myself have the caps...You can't use 3W or DA caps without an adapter for the CM6 spark plugs....With new caps you need new spark plugs with the metal tops still in place..The RC EXL caps will NOT come off easily....

So what you're saying is that you can supply a "normal" design plug cap to fit those Brisk UR17 plugs. That would be the ticket because I have no problem with the ignition itself. I think that if a guy could mount the plug directly in the cylinder then all the problems would disappear.

[Mokken]

C.H modified my zdz 80, they put bushings in, installed CM-6 plugs and modified the ignition for the plug caps. Cost was $75, I would give them a call and have them take care of this. Why these motors are still using this design is beyond me, it's sucks to no end, but an easy fix.

[pe reivers]

I have not seen this happen if the plugs are torqued 1/16th of a turn. Then they are tight. (instructions are on the plug wrap.
When torqued like that, you will not be able to remove the plug with the supplied wrench like you did in the movie. You need a bit more leverage for that. So my conclusion is that the plug was not tight enough to begin with.
The supplied wrench is for centering the cup/plug assembly only. After that, the plugs should be toqued to specification.

[Mokken]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pe reivers
	I have not seen this happen if the plugs are torqued 1/16th of a turn. Then they are tight. (instructions are on the plug wrap. When torqued like that, you will not be able to remove the plug with the supplied wrench like you did in the movie. You need a bit more leverage for that. So my conclusion is that the plug was not tight enough to begin with. The supplied wrench is for centering the cup/plug assembly only. After that, the plugs should be toqued to specification.

It's still a terrible design with no advantages over a straight plug setup.

[leeMcCrory]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Mokken
	It's still a terrible design with no advantages over a straight plug setup.

Defo, Ive got the MVVS 116 with the other style of plug cap n its perfect. I think the evo mods are a step backwards imo. Their plug caps look kinda stylee but it seems they aint all that?

[Mokken]

	Quote: Originally Posted by leeMcCrory
	Defo, Ive got the MVVS 116 with the other style of plug cap n its perfect. I think the evo mods are a step backwards imo. Their plug caps look kinda stylee but it seems they aint all that?

I'll take function over style any day, I'm sure everyone else would as well.

[cowtown flyer]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pe reivers
	I have not seen this happen if the plugs are torqued 1/16th of a turn. Then they are tight. (instructions are on the plug wrap. When torqued like that, you will not be able to remove the plug with the supplied wrench like you did in the movie. You need a bit more leverage for that. So my conclusion is that the plug was not tight enough to begin with. The supplied wrench is for centering the cup/plug assembly only. After that, the plugs should be toqued to specification.

I seems to me that whether you're an MVVS, Evolution, or ZDZ owner, there is some problem with this setup.

So my question to you Mr. Reivers, is what does MVVS / Evolution intend to do about this situation ? I bought this engine in good faith. Twice now it alone has almost cost me a brand new airplane.

Whatever your excuses are about the plugs not being tight enough is dead wrong. My plugs were torqued in beyong the Brisk specification. The problem is: your system is preventing the plug from DIRECTLY sealing on the head. No matter how you look at it, that's the problem.

In my opinion, MVVS / Evolution should be held accountable to their customers for this poor engineering design and also the resulting collateral damage. You know those plugs are at fault, and we the customer should not be searching for a solution to your shortcoming in design.

After the trouble I've had ( which I do not believe has anything to do with Horizon ), I would expect MVVS / Evolution to replace my engine with something that is proven to work in the field.

And on top of all this, why did you scrap the GX and come out with the GX2 which uses the standard plug caps and CM6 plugs ???

I would sure like to hear some concrete answers instead of more excuses.

[pe reivers]

Hey, I am not MVVS or Evolution. You want to rant because you did not torque your plugs right? Go bark up a different tree!

[cowtown flyer]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pe reivers
	Hey, I am not MVVS or Evolution. You want to rant because you did not torque your plugs right? Go bark up a different tree!

You have MVVS written all over your posts Mr. Reivers, so naturally I would assume you have something to do with the company. Also, you seem to post as soon as you see something to do with MVVS or Evolution.

Anyway, you can talk to the Horizon repair center about the torque. They put the plugs in and tested the engine when they replaced the stripped cylinder. So are you saying that they don't know what they are doing either ? Then you had better take it up with them.

And in your wisdom, might you offer a suggestion as to why only the one cylinder is affected and not the other ? That seems to me a mystery to me also.

Again, I asked for some concrete solutions: Not "you didn't do this, you didn't do that".

[octanehuffer]

	Quote: Originally Posted by cowtown flyer
	You have MVVS written all over your posts Mr. Reivers, so naturally I would assume you have something to do with the company. Also, you seem to post as soon as you see something to do with MVVS or Evolution. ************************************************** **************** Just because Pe has a company in his signature does not mean he own them. Would you think I own Quique's company? Dont argue over something you have no idea about. Sorry but it is a known fact that assumption is the lowest form of intelligence ************************************************** ***************** Anyway, you can talk to the Horizon repair center about the torque. They put the plugs in and tested the engine when they replaced the stripped cylinder. So are you saying that they don't know what they are doing either ? Then you had better take it up with them. ************************************************** *** Why would Pe have to look into YOUR problem? ************************************************** *** And in your wisdom, might you offer a suggestion as to why only the one cylinder is affected and not the other ? That seems to me a mystery to me also. ************************************************** ********* Because you didnt have a chance to run the engine long enough have the other one come loose. Of the tens of thousands of spark plugs manufactured in the small engine industry, the only ones that come loose are the ones not tightened properly. The threads of the plugs on your engine are no different than weed wackers, chainsaws, leaf blowers, etc. ************************************************** ********************* Again, I asked for some concrete solutions: Not "you didn't do this, you didn't do that".

Try pissing and moaning to the manufacturer first. Nobody here is going to wave a wand and replace your plane.