MVVS / Evolution / ZDZ owers - shielded plug system

[cowtown flyer]

With regard to the shielded plug cap system...I thought this might be of interest.


Thank you for sending a link to the video you have posted on you tube.
We are sorry to hear about the issues, and I absolutely agree that it is a very poor design that the engine manufacturer have selected for the specific engine application. Brisk is a spark plug manufacturer and manufacture spark plugs to customer (specific engine manufacturer) specification. Therefore Brisk is not to blame for the design and resulting problem, and Brisk would appreciate if you correct the title of your video so it does not appear that Brisk is at fault.
Here is potentially a solution to your problem.
After some research we have found that the engine manufacturer have apparently changed the design of spark plug and cap, since the UR17 spark plugs that Brisk currently manufacture comes with a standard terminal nut just like your lawn mower. We have the spark plugs in stock and ready to ship. However you will have to modify your current ignition system set up with a standard small engine spark plug cap just like is on your lawn mower. Such cap should be available at your local NAPA or other automotive or hardware store.
We hope this information will help.

Thank you.

Best regards,
Brisk USA.

[dick hanson]

and if anyone actually shifs a git -
ZDZwent to NGK for availability - and MVVS has changed cap design to use std smaller plugs ans ZDZ supposedly will do the same - (up in the air at the moment)
-If this setup drives you nuts - get the std plug adapter from CH Ignitions -it works jes fine. and you simply clip of the old cap tose the cup and stick a stock taper seat plug in the engine either a Brisk or a NGK -just specify the adapter kit desired as the plugs are different height.
-done!-

[mrbigg]

I've never had any problems with my ZDZ's standard setup.

[pe reivers]

I have had the pleasure of using BOTH systems.
The first system with lower boot had the standard plug shortened (saw off the threaded part) in order to keep overall dimensions of the engine to it's minimum. The lower boot part required extra attention to proper plug torque. The provided plug wrench is only for centering the lower boot so it fits the plug well.
This system is very complicated to produce, and thus quite expensive. (plug change, lower boot, upper boot potted and soldered, narrow tolerances)
The second system uses push on caps. If they are to fit tight, they need quite a lot of force, and a trwisting motion as well to get the cap on all the way. This system is extremely cheap in production, and in my humble opinion is not an improvement, even though the small CM6 plugs are. These plugs used to be very expensive, but lately the price goes down because they find more use.
I still prefer the sealed boot system. It is not perfect, but I know how to apply it. Sometimes a plug will sweat some oil, but it never is to the extent as to cause problems IF the plugs are torqued right. With the hundreds of engines I sold, I had more problems with the new push-on caps design (user ignorance) than with the old encapsulated plug design.
If you ask me, which design is better, I would say the old one, if proper taken care of. Weak point is the seal between plu, boot and cylinder. This however need not be an issue if the USER torques the plugs like they should.
Evolution personnel does not fly your plane, they just (grace) replace something that may be broke by customer error. They maybe are not trained as well as the Czech personnel that assembles the MVVS engines. I do not know that.
It is however your own responsibility to check an engine before you go fly it! YOU start the plane. It is YOUR choice, and you need to ensure all is well under the hood.

PS,
This is written in respons to Cowtown, who thinks that cross-posting reinforces his case.
ps.ps. without telling his real name. It is nice to hide behind screen names.

[dick hanson]

The Czech engineers and the Czech manufaturing personnel should have spent more time together
The hard steel spark plug (tapered )and the hard steel cup (matching taper) really needed a second angle to provide a seal - as do the multiple angles on poppet valve seats use in four stroke engines (three angles)
-I also worked on ZDZ engines and a few MVVS
this design was simply put : poorly executed.
Originally I was told 25 foot pounds (cold dry setting) and promptly pulled threads from the old test barrel .
I offered a "comment" that his was not a workable setup
th setting was then changed to 15 ft pounds cold dry- this worked
However new engines sometimes required force sufficient to strip the supplied wrenches -new!
Weeping oil into the cup was not uncommon.
having the plugs blow out of the head was also not an isolated thing.
The last permutation having the cup set screwed to the spark plug was NOT a perfect fix -but was in some instances an improvement
trying to assemble and setup inside a glass cowling was at times impossible.
The push on silicone boot which insulates the plug exterior is a good setup -IF the silicone boot is lubed properly
The little wire clip end which locks cover to the plug can be a problem if wire tension and shape is incorrect.
My present ZDZ 50's have the old setup but I did the snap on cap on a 60
all in all the snap on cap is more workable for the non technically minded user. Both work - both have issues.

[rcign]

ALL issues are EASILY solved by using a BPMR6F taper seat spark plug and an RC EXL igniton...The caps fit tighty and will NOT come loose...Easily put on with some silicone spray in the cap..
OR...Use a 14 to 10mm adapter and a CM6 spark plug, shorter, works well, same silicone spray in the cap...There are 20,000+ DA engines with similar caps and CM6 spark plugs...Last CM6s I got cost $1.97 plus shipping...Last week...
AND---Either solution is cheaper than whatever they come up with....Bill (C&H) and I have sold THOUSANDS of these ignitions with very good results.....

[dick hanson]

I am going to convert the two 50's when I ge around to it
I think I will go to the small plug also even tho it takes an insert. The ZDZ ignition with the tattletale tach is really neat I will keep that ignition module.
Without this feature -we are just guessing at inflight rpm.
someone else should copy it.

[cowtown flyer]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pe reivers
	I have had the pleasure of using BOTH systems. The first system with lower boot had the standard plug shortened (saw off the threaded part) in order to keep overall dimensions of the engine to it's minimum. The lower boot part required extra attention to proper plug torque. The provided plug wrench is only for centering the lower boot so it fits the plug well. This system is very complicated to produce, and thus quite expensive. (plug change, lower boot, upper boot potted and soldered, narrow tolerances) The second system uses push on caps. If they are to fit tight, they need quite a lot of force, and a trwisting motion as well to get the cap on all the way. This system is extremely cheap in production, and in my humble opinion is not an improvement, even though the small CM6 plugs are. These plugs used to be very expensive, but lately the price goes down because they find more use. I still prefer the sealed boot system. It is not perfect, but I know how to apply it. Sometimes a plug will sweat some oil, but it never is to the extent as to cause problems IF the plugs are torqued right. With the hundreds of engines I sold, I had more problems with the new push-on caps design (user ignorance) than with the old encapsulated plug design. If you ask me, which design is better, I would say the old one, if proper taken care of. Weak point is the seal between plu, boot and cylinder. This however need not be an issue if the USER torques the plugs like they should. Evolution personnel does not fly your plane, they just (grace) replace something that may be broke by customer error. They maybe are not trained as well as the Czech personnel that assembles the MVVS engines. I do not know that. It is however your own responsibility to check an engine before you go fly it! YOU start the plane. It is YOUR choice, and you need to ensure all is well under the hood. PS, This is written in respons to Cowtown, who thinks that cross-posting reinforces his case. ps.ps. without telling his real name. It is nice to hide behind screen names.

My name is Jim Johnson. I'm from Calgary Alberta, Canada. Of course you could have checked that in the profiles.

[cowtown flyer]

I received this from Brisk USA the other night.


Hi Jim,
We would like to help you find a solution to the spark plug/cap design problem and also help everyone else who may be experiencing same type of problem.
Would you be interested in helping us and other people who may experiencing the same type of problem? If you would be interested in making another video in the same way you made the last YouTube video except for one that shows how to successfully change over the ignition system to standard cap design and current Brisk UR17 spark plug which is with a standard spark plug terminal nut. We would greatly appreciate that information and in return we would provide you with 2 spark plugs free of charge for the project. Upon successful completion using the Brisk UR17 Plugs and receipt of the video we will gladly send you an additional 4 free of charge to further show our appreciation .

Thank you and we look forward to your response.

Best regards,
BriskUSA

I am looking forward to seeing what Brisk USA might come up with as another alternative to the fixes already suggested. I have to say that it is great that the plug maker ( Brisk ) seems more interested in solving the problem than does the actual MVVS representative posting here. Go figure....

[ggroyal1117]

Brisk UR17 and NGK CM6 spark plugs

[pe reivers]

	Quote: Originally Posted by cowtown flyer
	I received this from Brisk USA the other night. Hi Jim, We would like to help you find a solution to the spark plug/cap design problem and also help everyone else who may be experiencing same type of problem. Would you be interested in helping us and other people who may experiencing the same type of problem? If you would be interested in making another video in the same way you made the last YouTube video except for one that shows how to successfully change over the ignition system to standard cap design and current Brisk UR17 spark plug which is with a standard spark plug terminal nut. We would greatly appreciate that information and in return we would provide you with 2 spark plugs free of charge for the project. Upon successful completion using the Brisk UR17 Plugs and receipt of the video we will gladly send you an additional 4 free of charge to further show our appreciation . Thank you and we look forward to your response. Best regards, BriskUSA I am looking forward to seeing what Brisk USA might come up with as another alternative to the fixes already suggested. I have to say that it is great that the plug maker ( Brisk ) seems more interested in solving the problem than does the actual MVVS representative posting here. Go figure....

You do not convince me. Both systems have their own set of problems.
Brisk does not know what manufacturers down the line do with their plugs. It is evolution and ZDZ and others that sawed off the treaded tip to fit the plug to their engines.
Other systems leak as well. Here is the proof.

[dick hanson]

Nothing is foolproof
A really good , new gasket, properly torqued - is still the favorite for most engine designs The original cup taper fit setup could have been better - I spent a lot of time trying to come up with a fix on theese but was always thwarted by that pesky hard tapered setup in the bottom of the cup
to get enough pressure to seal the single angle steel on steel, the steel to aluminum torque needed to be quite high-relative to standard gasket plug specs -which rarely exceeded 10 ft pounds.
Most car makers abandoned the taper plug .

[andywynn]

I had the plug strip out in my ZDZ 80 RVJ. Had the importer heli coil it and then i tightened it up to 37 newtons torque. appears to be ok now. I just keep checking every 10 flights so far so good!!!!!!!!!

[cowtown flyer]

For me, this is the bottom line.

We spend a considerable amount of money of the purchase of these engines. One would EXPECT that the engine would run with reliability. One WOULD NOT EXPECT that they would have to modify the existing ignition, or purchase a third party ignition for a BRAND NEW ENGINE. And hence these posts to FG.

I own a DA. And although it's only a 50cc, I have never had a problem with the seating of the spark plug. Nor have I read about a problem with the seating of the spark plug. And when I send the engine in for service ( and I just got it back ). I get service - GOOD SERVICE from the manufacturer. And I get a reliable product. What I don't get is a bunch of DOUBLE TALK.

Personally, I had to SAVE to put this plane together. And what did I get for my money. An unreliable engine. And as a result of this unreliable engine, I now have a damaged airplane that I also have sink more money into. So the truth is: I feel cheated. I feel cheated out of my money. And I feel cheated out of enjoying my hobby.

And that is the bottom line Mr. MVVS. Personally, I don't know why you even bother replying to these posts, because in my opinion, you have no useful information to share. Just a lot of DOUBLE TALK.

Sincerely,
Jim Johnson,
Calgary, Alberta

[cowtown flyer]

This is a copy of an email that I sent directly to Mr. Pe Reivers office on 5/29/2009. And while I explained that I was having problems with my engine, and that needed help, I didn't even receive a reply... Can you explain this Mr. Reivers ???


Hello Pe,

You reponded to a post on FG about my problem of Brisk plugs backing out of the Evolution 116GX. I have an additional question that I hope you may be able to help me out with.

If I wanted to replace the Evolution plug caps with a conventional cap, can this be done ? Or is there a special cap designed for the Brisk UR17 plug ? I note that the pin in the UR17 is flat, as opposed to the standard design pin that NGK uses on the CM6. I questioned BriskUSA about this issue but so far they have not been able to answer the question. They are waiting to hear back from Brisk in Europe.

Even thought Horizon has my engine, I thought I would ask about eliminating the GX plug caps.

Thank you,
Jim Johnson,
Calgary, Alberta
Canada