Horizon hobby warrenty for lockouts

[khedge]

I recently loss my brand new Dalton to a reciever lockout. I am not blaming it all on the rx but I really think it is. Anyway my setup was 8 7955, dual fromeco 2600's, dual badger switches and one fromeco DC-Up. I know voltage was not the problem because after the crash I loaded checked the batteries and then were fine. The system was unregulated. The reciever was a JR 1221 mounted on a 42% products 8/16 blue box power expander. Basicly I would like to know what horizon has done for pass customers who have loss planes do to a reciever locking out. I currently sent my rx to horizon. I really like JR products but it really hurts to loose a plane I have worked so hard on on the madian flight.

Thanks

[aviti]

Sorry about your loss...that really sucks. Curious, why all the gadgets? The Powersafe AR9100 or 922 would have eliminated the need for powerexpander, DC Up and switches. With all that stuff, how would you ever know which device failed? Not saying that stuff shouldn't have worked but the Powersafe receivers are so much simpler. Again, sorry to hear about your plane.

[Bunky F. Knuckle]

Why use a powerbox????? When I put my Dalton up, there will be NO powerbox in it!!!! Just going with the KISS method!!! There is a STRONG possibility that I will go with 2 Rx's.... And looking into the capicitor that Spektrum sells.

I'm a big supporter of JR/Spektrum, but honestly, don't look for them to do anything to help you with the damages. The liability soley resides in the end user.

Did you range check, and then check your results on a Flight Logger???

[classclown]

	Quote: Originally Posted by khedge
	I recently loss my brand new Dalton to a reciever lockout. I am not blaming it all on the rx but I really think it is. Anyway my setup was 8 7955, dual fromeco 2600's, dual badger switches and one fromeco DC-Up. I know voltage was not the problem because after the crash I loaded checked the batteries and then were fine. The system was unregulated. The reciever was a JR 1221 mounted on a 42% products 8/16 blue box power expander. Basicly I would like to know what horizon has done for pass customers who have loss planes do to a reciever locking out. I currently sent my rx to horizon. I really like JR products but it really hurts to loose a plane I have worked so hard on on the madian flight. Thanks

What kind of Fromeco 2600s were you using?

[1bwana1]

Sorry about your loss. I know you said you load tested the batteries. I have never used the Blue Box power system, so I went to the TBM website and read the manual. It has the highest requirement for battery input voltage I have ever seen. They recommend that you use 20C LiPo batteries, and have special cautions for using A123, and LiOns. LiOns have a much lower C rating than LiPo, which is usually made up for by using larger capacity batteries under high load condition. C rating is a function of capacity. They say you must be sure your batteries must be able to withstand 10 amps continuous each while maintaining voltage. This is a heavy load for LiOns. You were using 8 7955. Since the manual says Volts to the Servos, equals Volts to the Power Box, and you were running unregulated, my guess is your setup drew a very heavy load. My bet is still with a power problem.

Here are some quotes from the manual:


The Blue Box allows the user to select a wide range of power sources to power the system. Due to the high power distribution capability of the Blue Box, it is advised that your power source consist of two independent battery systems, with ability to produce at least 10A each continuously. The innovative source selector automatically uses the best source that is plugged into it, ensuring your aircraft always has the power it needs. 42 Percent recommends two 2200

‐4200mAh 7.4V LiPo packs rated at 20C or more.

Note: A123 packs can be used with caution, but for the sake of your aircraft, check the pack voltage after every flight. Never let the voltage fall under 6.2V @ 2A with A123 types, and never let the voltage fall under 7.0V @ 2A with LiIon packs.

Don’t install the Blue Box if you are not absolutely confident your power source is sufficient for your servo load, 42 Percent products is not liable for damage to your aircraft. If you do not think that you must meet the requirements specified above please return the Blue Box to 42 Percent or your dealer for a full refund.

http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/ns/ma...LUEBOX8-16.pdf

Other things to check;

The JR 1221 RX is a power safe receiver that has it's own dual battery sharing bus. These would not normally be used with another bus system like the Blue Box. there could be a conflict issue here.

Did you use any of the servo outputs from the JR 1221 Reciever for anything including throttle, choke, ignition, ignition cutoff, smoke. If you did this will kill the power from the Blue Box to the RX as soon as it draws any amps. The bus from the power box to the reciever is only capable of 1.5 amps max.

[khedge]

Thanks guys, I plan on using li-pos and the 922 powersafe rx in my 42% Dalton and my 35% I build. I am going to use the fromeco blackjack li-pos

[khedge]

Also there was deans ultra connectors and 16 gauge wire though out the power system

[JoeAirPort]

Any flashing lights on the RX? Were you able to go into the receiver with a laptop and get any diagnostic info? Just curious. Were you doing anything that would draw lots of current at the time of lockout. I agree that there are batteries with higher discharge but you were using two. What is the max discharge rate of those packs? If you were just flying straight and level, I wouldn't suspect the batteries. I bunch of snaps or rolling harriers, maybe. Make sure the servos weren't binding in any way. There's a lot of variables to check before you can blame the rx....but the rx is in the equation. It can't be ruled out.

So sorry about your loss. Horrible thing to happen after all that work.

[ben_beyer]

I'm going with a Smart Fly Power Expander in my Dalton 300. They make excellent products.

[SmoothFlying]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Bunky F. Knuckle
	Why use a powerbox????? When I put my Dalton up, there will be NO powerbox in it!!!! Just going with the KISS method!!! There is a STRONG possibility that I will go with 2 Rx's.... And looking into the capicitor that Spektrum sells. I'm a big supporter of JR/Spektrum, but honestly, don't look for them to do anything to help you with the damages. The liability soley resides in the end user. Did you range check, and then check your results on a Flight Logger???

In my tests the flight logger does not work on the ground after a range check. Neither with the motor running or it running.

[crazyjoe]

	Quote: Originally Posted by ben_beyer
	I'm going with a Smart Fly Power Expander in my Dalton 300. They make excellent products.

I have three planes with smart fly expanders with hundreds of flights. So far working good. But then again they all work great until they dont.

[khedge]

I was flying straight and level when the plane locked out. I did not do any snaps I just flew it around straight. I was using 2 fromeco 2600 li-ion packs with 16 gauge wire and deans ultra connectors. It range checked fine.

[Flatlandman]

Hey man I think your battery set up was way to small for that plane. I assume when you wrote 2600 batts they are li-on?

[reyn3545]

I had a lockout on my H9 Ultimate early this year... all Futaba gear that had been in the plane for about a year. I had experienced known issues with lockouts on this gear before, but never before while flying, and never before in this plane. After that, I sold all of my Futaba gear and went with a JR 12x radio and 1222 receiver in my next plane. On the 4th flight, I lost receiver connection again and lost a second plane... 2 40% planes in 5 consecutive takeoffs.... not a good start to the season.

Just like you, I checked the batteies at the scene of the second crash, all seemed fine. I did have one elevator sevo locked, and after I got it home and removed from the plane, I found that the pot had completely melted through the bottom of that servo.... a 7955 that I used from the previous crash. That certainly could have contributed to or caused the crash, but I don't know. The ugly part of this hobby is that most times... you just don't know. I never found anything "wrong" from the first crash, just a definte lockout situation. All I could do was watch my plane fall from probably 200 feet. At least the failsafe worked. On the second flight, I was too close to the ground to say that the receiver definately browned out, but it felt like I was not connected to it. It certainly could have been that one elevator was locked in the full up position and before I could determine that, I was in the dirt. Who knows. That plane had the typical "KISS" setup, no regulators, two Duralite A123 batteries going straight into the 1222 receiver. This plane went in right on the nose, ruined the motor, and I decided to throw ALL of the electronics away and start fresh.

So far, my newest plane, with the same KISS setup, has been flawless. Just out of paranoia, I check the data recorder readings after every flight, and check the milliamp usage from each battery after each flight (gotta love those Kodiak switches). I haven't seen anything wrong, and haven't experienced any failures... let's hope my bad luck (and yours) is in the past!

Do your homework, get components you can trust, check them regularly, and pray it doesn't happen again!

[JEFFRO503]

what is the continuous max amp draw a fromeco Li-Ion can put out? I was thinking it was well over 10amps anyways. And why the caution for the A123's? My little A123 1100's put out a 30amp continuous and slightly over 60amp on burst.....that's better than most 2 cell lipos on the market.....or am i missing something here?