Trim setting is fading - Help

[Zeeb]

Well I gotta a story for 'ya.....

The 12X's have been experiencing some issues with the batteries and there are a number of posts about the issue on the 12X threads.

My 12X started running less and less time before needing a recharge until one day at the field when I tried to change the model it wouldn't turn on, just a blank screen with a black line through it. Pulled the battery and volt checked it which was fine, but didn't have a loaded volt checker which I think would have shown an issue. Put the battery back in and it turned on but took a long time with a significant voltage drop on the bootup to transmitting.

I'd noticed when this decreasing run time was going on, that some of my servo travels had physically changed although the same percentages were set in the radio, i.e. the throttle servo was the first I noticed as the engines would quit when the stick was pulled back. Had to change the ATV by about 20% and I also noticed my trims as well as other control deflections had changed.

Called Horizon and they said this couldn't happen but to send it in for the power issue. Got it back with a note saying everything was fine but it wouldn't turn on again right out of the shipping box, bit cold that day and after sitting for an hour the radio turned on again.

One of the Team-Horizon guys got with me and we ran some tests suggested by Horizon, as soon as we got to replacing the battery, the problems went away.

All my servo travels I'd had to change needed to be put back where they were originally as well as the trims, the radio starts up faster with less voltage drop and all has been well since I replaced the battery pack and quit using the provided charger which got the pack really hot.

A couple of tests for you; turn on the tx and note the battery voltage while it's booting up and then going to transmitting. Mine used to be .5 volts difference from when it was new, but with the bad pack it was .9 volts. Startup time should be about 3 seconds, mine was about 6 seconds with the bad pack, also the voltage drop with the new pack in mine is only .2 volts.

JMHO, but I wouldn't fly your airplane again until you confirm that there are no issues with your tx.

[Tex]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Zeeb
	Well I gotta a story for 'ya..... The 12X's have been experiencing some issues with the batteries and there are a number of posts about the issue on the 12X threads. My 12X started running less and less time before needing a recharge until one day at the field when I tried to change the model it wouldn't turn on, just a blank screen with a black line through it. Pulled the battery and volt checked it which was fine, but didn't have a loaded volt checker which I think would have shown an issue. Put the battery back in and it turned on but took a long time with a significant voltage drop on the bootup to transmitting. I'd noticed when this decreasing run time was going on, that some of my servo travels had physically changed although the same percentages were set in the radio, i.e. the throttle servo was the first I noticed as the engines would quit when the stick was pulled back. Had to change the ATV by about 20% and I also noticed my trims as well as other control deflections had changed. Called Horizon and they said this couldn't happen but to send it in for the power issue. Got it back with a note saying everything was fine but it wouldn't turn on again right out of the shipping box, bit cold that day and after sitting for an hour the radio turned on again. One of the Team-Horizon guys got with me and we ran some tests suggested by Horizon, as soon as we got to replacing the battery, the problems went away. All my servo travels I'd had to change needed to be put back where they were originally as well as the trims, the radio starts up faster with less voltage drop and all has been well since I replaced the battery pack and quit using the provided charger which got the pack really hot. A couple of tests for you; turn on the tx and note the battery voltage while it's booting up and then going to transmitting. Mine used to be .5 volts difference from when it was new, but with the bad pack it was .9 volts. Startup time should be about 3 seconds, mine was about 6 seconds with the bad pack, also the voltage drop with the new pack in mine is only .2 volts. JMHO, but I wouldn't fly your airplane again until you confirm that there are no issues with your tx.

Thanks Zeeb thats the confirmation I was looking for......I have never lost any trim with any of my planes untill I got this radio........and now I have lost 2 planes.......But I am not going to lose this Dalton......so I will call NOS? batteries and get it replaced.

[Zeeb]

Well I suppose the first thing to do would be confirm that you have a battery issue with the tx? It's unfortunately not an uncommon problem most likely attributed (IMHO) to the provided charger ruining the batteries.

The first thing I did was to quit using that charger and used the 110 mah jobby that came with my DX-7. Then I although I had a new JR 2000 mah pack, I tried one of the 2700 Sanyo's from NoBS and used this new walwart from JR which is a 270 mah output, but doesn't run at 12.0 volts like the provided charger:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=JRPC223

That battery works well but I really wanted to try the Eneloop cells and those were not available for cassette type packs when I got the NoBS pack. Since then, several vendors have come out with Eneloop packs with cells which fit inside the cassette of radios using a cassette like the 12X or 10X. So I got an Eneloop pack from Chad over at Sin City Jets.

http://www.sincityjets.com/store-batteries.htm

I really like that pack as the self discharge rates on the Eneloops are so low it's unbelievable. They are 2000 mah like the factory pack. Now if the radio battery is really low I use the JR 270 mah walwart which has a max charge time of 10 hours, or if it's down a ways or can wait overnight, I use the 110 mah walwart from the DX-7. Bye the way, the charger for the 10X, DX-7 and X9303 will all work just fine.

[Tex]

Thanks Zeeb

the pack is on the way........got some new tools....and tomorrow I will put the new pack in and put this radio problem to bed once and for all........

[Zeeb]

Tex,

You're quite welcome for the information regarding my issues with the 12X. I hope it fixes your problem as it did mine, however I must mention that I initially only flew my foamies with my 12X until I was sure it was working again, then a couple of glow models I keep around and they all worked flawlessly before I flew my gassers again.

Just a thought......

[The Dirt Doctor]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Zeeb
	Well I suppose the first thing to do would be confirm that you have a battery issue with the tx? It's unfortunately not an uncommon problem most likely attributed (IMHO) to the provided charger ruining the batteries. The first thing I did was to quit using that charger and used the 110 mah jobby that came with my DX-7. Then I although I had a new JR 2000 mah pack, I tried one of the 2700 Sanyo's from NoBS and used this new walwart from JR which is a 270 mah output, but doesn't run at 12.0 volts like the provided charger: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=JRPC223 That battery works well but I really wanted to try the Eneloop cells and those were not available for cassette type packs when I got the NoBS pack. Since then, several vendors have come out with Eneloop packs with cells which fit inside the cassette of radios using a cassette like the 12X or 10X. So I got an Eneloop pack from Chad over at Sin City Jets. http://www.sincityjets.com/store-batteries.htm I really like that pack as the self discharge rates on the Eneloops are so low it's unbelievable. They are 2000 mah like the factory pack. Now if the radio battery is really low I use the JR 270 mah walwart which has a max charge time of 10 hours, or if it's down a ways or can wait overnight, I use the 110 mah walwart from the DX-7. Bye the way, the charger for the 10X, DX-7 and X9303 will all work just fine.

Zeeb, I would like to get me some of those eneloops too. Does Sin City also sell the 12X "holder"? Also, will the 10X OEM charger work or will my old Alpha 4 do better at charging them?

Bobby

Bobby

[Tex]

	Quote: Originally Posted by The Dirt Doctor
	Zeeb, I would like to get me some of those eneloops too. Does Sin City also sell the 12X "holder"? Also, will the 10X OEM charger work or will my old Alpha 4 do better at charging them? Bobby Bobby

They do not sell the casette (holder) I am changing mine out right now........

[Tex]

Ok its a done deal.....the new eneloops are in and every thing seems to be working fine.......I can allready tell the radio comes on a lot faster............

[Tex]

Oh no it wont charge which means the diod shorted out

[Zeeb]

	Quote: Originally Posted by The Dirt Doctor
	Zeeb, I would like to get me some of those eneloops too. Does Sin City also sell the 12X "holder"? Also, will the 10X OEM charger work or will my old Alpha 4 do better at charging them? Bobby Bobby

Nope, as Tex said you can't buy just the cassette. However a 10X cassette does fit the 12X and that's what I had to use when we first figured out my battery was bad since Horizon didn't have any replacement packs for the 12X. So I picked up a 10X battery from a friend with the 1100 mah NiCD cells. That's the one I sent to Sin City and had 'em change out the cells as it's free if you send in yours so all it cost me was an extra $5.00 to ship it to Las Vegas.

Yes the 10X OEM charger will work fine, just takes a bit longer. IIRC, that is also a 110 mah output?

Tex,

I haven't a clue what the values are for the diode are, maybe if you shoot either Reza or Troy Newman a PM they might be able to tell you? Or are you one of those 'lectronic types who can figure it out from the markings on the diode so you can just pick one up locally?

[Tex]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Zeeb
	Nope, as Tex said you can't buy just the cassette. However a 10X cassette does fit the 12X and that's what I had to use when we first figured out my battery was bad since Horizon didn't have any replacement packs for the 12X. So I picked up a 10X battery from a friend with the 1100 mah NiCD cells. That's the one I sent to Sin City and had 'em change out the cells as it's free if you send in yours so all it cost me was an extra $5.00 to ship it to Las Vegas. Yes the 10X OEM charger will work fine, just takes a bit longer. IIRC, that is also a 110 mah output? Tex, I haven't a clue what the values are for the diode are, maybe if you shoot either Reza or Troy Newman a PM they might be able to tell you? Or are you one of those 'lectronic types who can figure it out from the markings on the diode so you can just pick one up locally?

Its no big deal Zeeb........I just put a wire jumper on it..........now it charges......as long as the polarity isnt reversed it will be just fine...........It works great now.......

Zeeb what rate do I need to charge these eneloops at........I got a Onyx NiMH charger with 3 settings........

[Zeeb]

Well they're pretty much like any other high capacity NiMH, 1/2C Max but they'll all live a lot longer if you use 1/10C.

So like I said, I use that 270 mah JR walwart I gave you the link to if I'm in a hurry but the instructions on it say not to leave the charger on for more than 10 hours. Most of the time I just plug in the 110 mah walwart from my DX-7 the night before if it needs charging. I don't fly a whole lot and one of the nice things is that I don't do much charging at all now that they don't self discharge to any real extent. I've not been able to do much flying this summer but right after I got the Eneloops I went out and did three ten minute flights and the tx got put up for just over two months. When I pulled it out to check the battery level before flying the next time, it still showed 10.6 volts.

While most of these high capacity AA size NiMH cells need a few cycles to "break in" the information I've seen on the Eneloops suggests that's not necessary and so I didn't do that like I did with the 2700 Sanyo's.

[Tex]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Zeeb
	Well they're pretty much like any other high capacity NiMH, 1/2C Max but they'll all live a lot longer if you use 1/10C. So like I said, I use that 270 mah JR walwart I gave you the link to if I'm in a hurry but the instructions on it say not to leave the charger on for more than 10 hours. Most of the time I just plug in the 110 mah walwart from my DX-7 the night before if it needs charging. I don't fly a whole lot and one of the nice things is that I don't do much charging at all now that they don't self discharge to any real extent. I've not been able to do much flying this summer but right after I got the Eneloops I went out and did three ten minute flights and the tx got put up for just over two months. When I pulled it out to check the battery level before flying the next time, it still showed 10.6 volts. While most of these high capacity AA size NiMH cells need a few cycles to "break in" the information I've seen on the Eneloops suggests that's not necessary and so I didn't do that like I did with the 2700 Sanyo's.

Cool.........I bought a DX-7 charger.........but it says 150mA charger........I am guessing this is fine.........its charging I checked it after about 10mins and it went from 10.6 -10.9 so its working thanks for all the help buddy

[Zeeb]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Tex
	Cool.........I bought a DX-7 charger.........but it says 150mA charger........I am guessing this is fine.........its charging I checked it after about 10mins and it went from 10.6 -10.9 so its working thanks for all the help buddy

150 mah huh? They must of kicked 'em up again as that's exactly 1/10C for the 1500 mah pack in the DX-7 or X9303. The originals came with a 50 mah charger and they had to be charged for like 30 hours, then they came out with a 110 mah and that's what my X9303 had as well.

The 12X factory charger is 250 mah and that's a bit more than 1/10C but not much, I think the issue with them is the output voltage is 12.0 rather than the more common 11.6, but who knows for sure? All I know is my batteries got real hot and quit using that charger.

Glad I could help out, the fact that your radio turns on a lot quicker now is a good indication that you were having battery problems and the issues with the tx are probably resolved....

[The Dirt Doctor]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Zeeb
	Nope, as Tex said you can't buy just the cassette. However a 10X cassette does fit the 12X and that's what I had to use when we first figured out my battery was bad since Horizon didn't have any replacement packs for the 12X. So I picked up a 10X battery from a friend with the 1100 mah NiCD cells. That's the one I sent to Sin City and had 'em change out the cells as it's free if you send in yours so all it cost me was an extra $5.00 to ship it to Las Vegas. Yes the 10X OEM charger will work fine, just takes a bit longer. IIRC, that is also a 110 mah output? Tex, I haven't a clue what the values are for the diode are, maybe if you shoot either Reza or Troy Newman a PM they might be able to tell you? Or are you one of those 'lectronic types who can figure it out from the markings on the diode so you can just pick one up locally?

Thank you Zeeb. I do have a spare 10X battery pack so that's what I'll use to send to Sin City on Monday.

Bobby