I DONT UNDERSTAND

[blackbeer]

Well I got into IMAC this year because I like the idea of precision flying. I love to practice the sequence. I'm way too old to worry about or care about whether I win, place, or show. For me it's the flying I love. You have to remember that the pilots themselves are doing the marking of scores, some are very experienced and some are less so. Who cares. I'm in it for the flying and the fun. I'm sure there are all kinds of things to complain about but I just can't take it that seriously. I mean heck there are things on this planet worth worrying about but this doesn't make it on my list.

Tom

[dbcaster]

As long as the same judges score all the pilots in the same class it should even out. If they don't see the zero on one pilot, they most likely will not see it on everybody's flight. I fly in my first IMAC contest this year and thought the same thing on Saturday. After seeing my scores from two different judges with all the different pilots, I figured it all evened out. For the most part the best pilots win and the scores end up where they should. After all, it is other pilots scoring and it is a fun weekend flying model airplanes.

[rede2fly]

	Quote: Originally Posted by floridaflyer
	If you "really" want to fly IMAC, just go do it. Dont worry about scores your first few events. Make sure you start in Basic, no matter how good "you" think you are. IMAC is fun. Dont take it too personally or seriously. It will make you a better pilot. I just moved to Florida from Indiana and the NCFR of IMAC. Flying IMAC events up there was just great fun and competitve as well. I have not been to any events here yet. I have been to the IMAC Judging School in Muncie, IN. You will find good and bad judges everywhere. The way the scoring systems works everything works out in the end. Even if you have an instance where one judge gives a 0 and the other gives a 7 or whatever. If you are already that concerned about scoring and have not even competed yet, you may want to try something else. Anybody on these forums that says they wont compete in a IMAC event is probably somebody that cant even fly a straight line from one end of the field to the other. You'd be suprised at how difficult that really is when you are being judged. So I say try it once, can't hurt. Bye the way, I live in Ft. Lauderdale. I would be happy to help you out if you live close.

that is very nice of you to offer, but i left south fl in 95. iam not so concerned that it will stop me from trying it. iam just asking to see why or how a judge that is supposed to know the manuvers can be so far apart in scoring what is being done without anybody questioning them on it. i mean i saw other things shuch as sound for instance. all day long the very same plane scored 10's across the board until one set of judges gave a 5, now the plane never changed, same motor,same prop, same cans, how can that be?? iam again just trying to understand the game and how its played. and other pilots thier scores never changed. i would think if you are running a set of cans and a 3 blade prop how can it get any more quiet ? or louder ? its as if you can just give any score for what ever reason you wish. this is what iam trying to figure out. i mean if i put 5 to 600.00 worth of cans and pipes and another 200 for a carbon 3 blade prop and everyone gave me 10.s but 1 set of judges gave me 5's or 0 i would be pissed and would like to know why. are you allowed to ask?? i know life isnt fair but come on.

[1bwana1]

You know, we can go back and forth forever on this thread, and it will never become clear. It is subjective judging, against a set of criteria. My best suggestion is that over the Winter break you make a point of attending a judging school. Not only will it help you understand the criteria, it will help you understand the variance we see in judging. Attending a judging school will be a tremendous help in your flying, and competing in IMAC. It will increase your enjoyment of the sport as well.

I look at your questioning as a good sign. You will probably make a great, consistent judge when your time in the chair comes.

[airbike]

When you get a score with a big spread like a 0 and a 7, I was told that you can take it up with the CD of the contest. He can talk with the judges and change the 7 to a 0......

[sweetpea]

Was the score a spin or snap? This is the most common place for the difference. What one judge sees as an incorrect entry the other may not have seen.

I know if I give a zero I always tell the competitor why when they pick up the score sheets. That way they can work on it for the next sequence. Important thing is to know the rules as a judge and be consistent with your downgrades. It would be nice to say everything is black and white per the rule book, but it usually comes down to placement, weather conditions, eyesight and preception.

Note that I've also seen a blatent Zero get scored a 10 by both judges.....it happens and we all move on.

[Dan Baker]

Mr. Rede to fly: IMAC has several manuevers where only the slightest infraction results in the score being dropped all the way down to a zero. When I stay "slightest", I mean only a very small difference in aspect. It is actually very easy for one judge to award a zero and the other judge to award a score. It happens a bunch in each contest. Most of the following manuevers are in all classes, and are prone (by rule) to see a zero by one judge and a score by another.
1. Snap roll
2. Spin entry
3. Hammer Head
4. Tail Slide

The smallest error by the pilot in certain situations can result in a zero on these, and perhaps others. The error might have been detected by one judge and not by the other judge. If you visit the IMAC web-site and click on rules, read them, you'll find the words "a zero will be given" about two dozen times. These words are next to a single (1) flight rule infraction.

To answer your question in post #1, one judge saw an infraction resulting in the score being dropped to a zero, and the other judge "judged" the manuever as scorable.

Per rule, the two judges do not have to agree on scores.

Attending a Judges Seminar will explain things in more detail.

Hope this helps, Dan Baker

[rede2fly]

thank you for the answere

[RollingHarrier]

This last year while I was waiting for my turn to fly I would watch some of the judges as they scored. Some would look down to write the number down and miss the first element of the next maneuver. What Bill James started implementing was scribes (someone who writes the score down) for the judges for intermediate thru unlimited. This way the judge doesn’t have to take his or her eyes off of the flying. I'm sure he'll try to get the CDs at the 2010 contests to do this.
But you’re correct that Judging can be very subjective especially when the person judging has no real training. An example: I've seen judges downgrade for the 'plane being pushed around by the wind when it is stalled. A little bit of training would go a long way. I'm not sure of the money involved but maybe IMAC chould offer free judge training to those who are interested. Just a thought.

Now for the best part. If you want to improve your flying, fly IMAC sequences. You’ll learn so much on setting up and properly controlling your airplane that you will notice a vast improvement in your flying across all different styles of flying. I know I have.

[brycesteenburg]

dmichael, Hey no problems here! I respect your point of view and agree with it. I just like to fly and I don't really care about any prestige or points as to how it looks to others. Believe me I am more critical to myself than any one else could ever be. I just like to have my free time just that, free time. I do like to fly the sequences just for my own improvement purposes and enjoyment. Not trying to sound like an as$hole if that is how you hear it. It's kind of like fishing to me, I'm not there for the approval.

Bryce

[dmichael]

No issues here but thanks for your note. Competition isn't for everyone but most of the guys who compete do it just for the fun of it and don't get worked up about how they place. It's all for fun- if you ever get the opportunity or urge to try it IMAC will be available to you and I hope you'd enjoy it. There's a great group of guys into IMAC up your way.

Dave

[camano68]

Well said Tom, I agree with you.

Rick

[Dave P]

Just a thought. As far as I can tell nothing it this life is perfect. I have yet to see a scoring system or rules setup in any activity or sport that is perfect. With that said my thought is this. If a person did not participate in there chosen activity because of this they would miss out on the greatest experience for themselves. While it is a lot of fun and a great sense of pride and accomplishment to finish in 1st place. That will fade quickly compared to the friendships, relationships, personal growth, accomplishments and memories one would receive from just being involved in the activity.

I have found that just being involved will make you better. And that in itself is the greatest reward. So I say so what if it's not perfect. Go on out and participate. You will enjoy it and it will enrich en your experience in this great hobby. And you will be better for it.

Dave.

[brycesteenburg]

Hey Dave! Let's see... the SSRCC in Mass. has a Sleepy appointed Father Don, I think the Tri County rc club needs to have Bryce appointed Rev. Dave. He! He!
Ya know I would do the IMAC thing but I am too much of the "free spirit" these days. When I start to do these types of things I start casual and loose then slowly turn into a competitive maniac, get serious and really begin to hemorrage money. Not going there this time!!! Been there with other sports and hobbies. Drove my family nuts!! I know thineself better.
I appreciate and respect the people, IMAC, how it works, it's follies and all it has to offer but the commitment thing is not for me at this time. Sure is fun to try and perfect a routine sometimes though.
I think the group from the club did very well and will become a tight knit group along with helping to keep the good group of all in this club together better!
Dave I want to talk to you about something when is the best time to call?
Bryce

[tony-amps]

You have to take the bad with the good and move on and not dwell on the bad. Like many have said in this thread nothing is perfect ,then add a human factor and you can get some good stew. But all in all IMAC is a wonderful sport ! Every IMAC pilot has a duty to educate themselves and attend the judging seminars every year just to keep up to speed.

Tony Fandino