30% TOC wont hover.

[TheTank]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flatlandman
	The weight or the fuel tank isnt keeping his plane from hovering. Its the setup and pilot skill.

Bingo

[3ddd]

hey no prob dude ,have been there done that myself, fly on

[borealnw]

Hey thanks Classclown no problem info is good stuff. I will make the corrections and let folks know how it turns out. sent servo's in for service so it will be a week or so. In the mean time will change out the tank and place it above in front of the wing tube and move the engine forward to shed the dead weight. While I am there will check my thrust line and make corrections if needed. This weekend will get new 9303 to correct the mis-match elev servo issue and change my expo to match. Most here are saying that expo needs to be in the 40 range so that is where I will start.

[zoomer260]

	Quote: Originally Posted by airboss/oc
	drop some weight and get one of these, 3W55xi comp series

Man that is just too cute. She already likes big shiny things ?

[Tyler P]

	Quote: Originally Posted by zoomer260
	Man that is just too cute. She already likes big shiny things ?

That's good stuff right there! Keep her handling your airplane stuff, one thing at a time, and finally give her the radio!

[borealnw]

Recieved 20 Ounce fuel tank today and will replace the large tank and place it above and in front of the wing tube.

Also leveled the fuse to check thrust angle today and have attached some pics of what I found. With the fuse level I found that the engine has some down thrust of .7* a hair over the .5 mark on the meter. Question should I zero the thrust or place it at an upward thrust, if so how much?

So my next project is two fold. I need to shed the 5 ounces of dead weight I placed on the engine box to get the CG where it is. Hands off inverted 45* upline. I also want to get rid of the 3/4" extensions making the stand offs at 3 1/2" down to 2 3/4" Stock stand off length. My second goal is to fix both the right thrust and down thrust by extending the engine box forward. I need another 1/16" of right thrust and need to fix the .7* of down thrust.

Anyway my thought is to move the engine forword another 1/2" and correct the thrust issues also 1. make the plane fly straight (right thrust) needs another 1/16". 2. correct the potential hover problem by changing the downward thrust to zero or upward. 3. By moving the engine forword I hope to correct the CG problem and shed the 5 ounces of dead weight. Placing the CG so that it drops a little to the nose 45* inverted

Any suggestions. I think I am on the right track what do you think?

















With the Cowl and prop installed the back-plate of the spinner is 1/2" away from the cowl. By moving the engine forword I gain another 1/2" making the backplate at 1" from the cowl. My hope is that it will transfere the weight forword enough to shed the dead weight. I also ordered a CF Stab tube. This will shed .7 ounces off the tail.

[Flatlandman]

Yes move the motor out and adjust the batt position to get the cg right and remove the weight. Set the engine thrust as close to zero as you can get then test it in flight fly straight and flat at high throttle then quickly drop to idle if the plane stay straight good if it darts up or down change the up/down thrust if it darts up add a washer of up thrust if it darts down add a washer of down thrust. Adjust the right thrust with inflight cues also. fly 3/4 power then pull an up line and go full power, make sure your wings are perfectly level when you pull the up line, while your on the up line and have speed the plane should travel straight dont adjust for a vear if the vear happens after the plane slows. do the tests several times before making a change.

Bad news is this isnt whats making it difficult to hover. I would bet a donut that you see a huge improvement on your hovering when you drop your expo from 80% to 45% on the rudder and ele. Also give a burst of power when your plane falls off to the side, give the burst of power with the ele and rudder inputs.

[borealnw]

Update:

I've changed out the tank to a 20 ounce and put it in front of the wing tube.





Extended the engine box forward 1 1/2" To shorten the standoff extensions and bring the CG forward. Also while doing that I found that I had 3/4 of a degree of downward thrust and the right thrust was off by 1/16" So I changed that as well in the new fire box.

Here is the old




This is the new










It now has the right amount of right thrust 3/16" and is just over center to the up side of thrust. Not even a tick mark over.




This time instead of using the TOC directions I centered the engine to the cowl putting it directly center to the plane.



the prop sticks out 1" from the cowl giving it more performance, plus I like how it looks, instead of being so close to the cowl.



Servo's should be back from service today or tomorrow so will put those in and check CG. I am confident it will be a tad to the nose though. Anyway if all goes well I hope to get it up in the air on Sunday and will let you guys know how it works out.

PS: Also changed my expo on high rates to 40 Ail and Elev and 55 rudder. Anyway thanks for all your advice and will let you know how it works out soon.

[classclown]

	Quote: Originally Posted by borealnw
	Update: I've changed out the tank to a 20 ounce and put it in front of the wing tube. Extended the engine box forward 1 1/2" To shorten the standoff extensions and bring the CG forward. Also while doing that I found that I had 3/4 of a degree of downward thrust and the right thrust was off by 1/16" So I changed that as well in the new fire box. Here is the old This is the new It now has the right amount of right thrust 3/16" and is just over center to the up side of thrust. Not even a tick mark over. This time instead of using the TOC directions I centered the engine to the cowl putting it directly center to the plane. the prop sticks out 1" from the cowl giving it more performance, plus I like how it looks, instead of being so close to the cowl. Servo's should be back from service today or tomorrow so will put those in and check CG. I am confident it will be a tad to the nose though. Anyway if all goes well I hope to get it up in the air on Sunday and will let you guys know how it works out. PS: Also changed my expo on high rates to 40 Ail and Elev and 55 rudder. Anyway thanks for all your advice and will let you know how it works out soon.

Good luck dude!!!

[Jezmo]

Some time back I was given a 50cc airframe that had been crashed and rebuilt but the original owner said never flew right after the crash. I flew the plane that day before he took all of his gear off and just as he said it wouldn't do anything right. Some info pertaining to this discussion, it would continually try to fall to the gear when in a hover and also had to have left rudder to hold the nose pointed straight up. I started checking with the incidence meter and tape measure when I got it home and found the motor box to be tilted 4 degs right and 5 1/2 degs down. I shimmed the engine to 0 down and 1 1/2 right thrust with washers and test flew it. It went from very hard (read imposible) to hover to you could almost lay the transmitter down easy. In short that taught me that thrust angles have a noticeable effect in hover.
Edited to add: I also agree that 80% expo is too much for hovering. More like 50 to 55% on the Elev/Rudder

[bodywerks]

	Quote:
	Hands off inverted 45* upline.

Who cares. You can't determine how a plane's CG feels just by watching it - you have to fly it.

[borealnw]

Great news ;-) Got servo's back and took it out today. It hoovers. Took some time getting CG and trim in right and first time front and center it walled awesome and with little effort locked into a hoover.

CG is set so that the plane falls just slightly to the nose.
Up thrust at 3/4 throtle and straight and level, let off on the fuel and it tracked until it lost air speed.
Right thrust needed 1/16 shim and flies straight on uplines.
I get 13 minutes on the 20 ounce tank.
Set my expo at 45 on everything but Elev, I bumped it up to 55 to time torque rolls.

Anyway I made a few to many changes to know which was the magic fix but all that said it is fixed. I want to thank all of you for your patience and help it is much appreciated.

[Flatlandman]

Awesome!!!

It feels good to fly a plane that you have started to get dial in.

[classclown]

NICE!! Now burn some fuel and have a blast!!!!

[james.l.hill]

Allright, thats what this forum is for!! I'm surprised no one mentioned the engine, I know a DL55 has plenty of power for a 30% at that weight, but it must also transition cleanly, specially in the mid-range, I've noticed several others planes that were tough to hover, mainly due to mid-range loading up, losing a lot of thrust in that spot can make hovering harder than it is. Whos said hovering is boring, try hovering DOD right in front of yourself, belly facing you, with wind at your back, never fails to keep me puckered & pumped up!!!!! If I screw that up, I'll be hamburger!!