XFC scores!!!

[JagerBomb]

The first was a 1.5 positive snap roll followed by a 4 point roll in the opposite roll direction followed by a half snap roll in the opposite roll direction of the 4 point roll.

The second was a diamond loop with a 2 point roll on the 1st upline with a negative snaproll on the second segment with a 2 0f 4 point roll on the third segment and a 1.5 negative snaproll on the final segment.

The third manuever was the one that I found most difficult. Roll 90 degrees to knife edge, make a 90 degree turn, then 2 point roll to the outside, turn 90 degrees then 2 point roll to the inside, turn 90 degrees then 2 point roll to the outside, turn 90 degrees then roll back to stright and level.

While all these manuevers are very doable, try to first do them with perfect geometry then fly them to the music and maintain that geometry. And then to really make it tough, fly it in front of 3 judges and a thousand people standing behind them. I was so nervous I forgot half of my sequence in the first known round and had forgotten to give my a caller a written sequence sheet to go by.

[Biff]

I feel compelled to throw this in as well. You simply don't get the nod to be chief judge at the TOC and do all you do for IMAC without knowing what you're doing and have a proven record of being completely above boards. I've known the Jonhsons for years and have nothing but respect for them. Even if they weren't close personal friends, I would be compelled to publicly support them. If you've ever attended one of Fred's judges meetings, you would know that the contest rules are covered seven ways to Sunday.

I think to question politics is out of line. It's public knowledge that the XFC committee all fly one brand of radio. Fred and Baron fly another. If there was the slightest bit of question on the minds of the XFC committee about being fair, there would have been other choices made.

It's just a hobby guys,enjoy it!!

[falconpilot]

First all, to WMAT7039 and All,

My sources are wrong, and I do have my fact mixed up...Fred was the Chief Judge at the Nats, and did not in fact judge the Free Styles. With that being said, Fred, Julie and Baron, I'm very sorry for not having the fact straight. I was not implying any wrong doing to begin with. thatis not the intention of my post.

Now, I WAS NOT, AM NOT attacking Fred or Baron. Fred is a leader in our sport and a great asset. Baron flew his ass off last year, and deserves to place high. IN MY OPINION , he did not out fly Mark. It goes to an interview I once had for a law enforcement job. I was asked what I would do if I stopped my own son, late one night on a back road,and his was drunk? Would I arrest him for DWI as my job duties state that I should? No, I'd take him home..Does that make me a bad cop? No, just a OBJECTIVE/SUBJECTIVE father...

My whole thread was meant to make all the IMAC guys think about getting more involved, help when we can by learning the rules. Help the CD's judge when needed or anything else. Work together, but also take yourself out when you should...Let's keep this sport fair, fun, and enjoyable for everyone..

As for apologizes goes, I'll say this..Fred and Baron, I mean no ill will toward either of you,and it was not/is not not my intentions to imply any kind of wrong doings on your parts.

I don't care what sport it is, there will always be questions about the outcome of events when human judging is involved because we are by nature, all effected by outside influences, I don't care who you are. I only know of one who was'nt ,and he died on the cross. So, if as a competitor, if you can't accept these facts and live with them, you'll need to find something else to do...

Sorry to all that I might have offend with the thread....Jim

[Biff]

Jim, thank you SO much for clarifying!! We all have posted something and caught ourselves later after knowing all the facts. Your way of handling the situation speaks volumes of you. Some would just walk away. Nothing but respect for you dude. That's what we're all about!!! I think a Giants award is in order!!! Thanks for being so stand up about it. GIANT style points to you!!!

[falconpilot]

Everyone,

PLEASE, I'M NOT QUESTIONING OR ATTACKING JUDGING BY THE JOHNSON'S. I meet Freddie two years ago at the Nall, and he is a hell of a nice guy! I should have worded my post differnetely to clear that subject. I have already said I'm sorry that if it appearred that I was questioning their valves, judging, and their ability to be fair.
That said, I'm done.....

[falconpilot]

Thanks Biff!

Sometimes we ingage our mouths before our minds!!! My post was only meet to point out the fact that judging is always subjective, and that everyone will NEVER be happy with the final out come..... Jim

[Boulder]

I think everything is good, Jim. As Biff said, we as the Flying Giants staff salute you for clarifying your original post. I took your original post to mean that everyone is human, just as I think you meant it. The only problem in your original post was that you were given some bad info, and it offended some people. You have straightened all of that out, and in my book, you're a gentleman for that.

Thank you for fixing the original misconception, Flying Giants props to you, sir!!!

[madmax]

Jim, PERFECT post & Kenny, excellent observation. It's this kind of drama free dialog that makes me very proud to be a part of this organization. Thanks guys.

[Wayne]

	Quote: Originally Posted by JagerBomb
	I know a lot of guys who can huck it on the deck and be very impressive, but try to put it together in a flowing entertaining sequence to music and couple it with a few hard required manuevers. I at one time thought XFC meant hard core 3D on the deck. I didn't understand what true Extreme Flight was. What I saw this weekend was much more difficult than a rolling harrier inches off the runway or a scraping knife edge pass at mach 10. I have a whole new respect for the process as well as all of the peple who are involved in putting on an event such as this.

Mark,

That is exactly why I started flying IMAC after I flew in the '04 XFC.
Like you, I realized its not about flipping and flopping or hanging low to the ground.
I dont think you can do well at a National Freestyle event like the XFC without a strong pattern or IMAC background.

Sloppy 3D can still wow the crowd.
Sloppy precision gets you low scores from judges.
I've never been to a contest where the crowd determines a winner.

[AEROCOLOR]

Biff, Thanks for clarifying what the XFC is about. Perhap some haven`t had the opportunity to review the judging criteria given to the pilots before the event. Maybe we should post those sometime to shed some light on what is expected of our competitors. It`s definitely not an easy task to be competitive. These guys are serious and bring their best game if they want to win. Frank, Wendell and I stay as far away from the judging as possible after the event starts. That`s why we have a chief judge and rely on the combined experience of our selected judging panel. We don`t need or want any conflicts during or after the event. As said before, we really don`t care what brand you fly. This event is just plain fun during and afterhours. We spend four eighteen hour days there making this happen after a year of planning and would like to think it comes out as fair as possible. That said, thankyou to all that attended and helped to make this the show that it has become. We are extremely proud of the level of talent that is displayed while competing and the friendship shown otherwise. Come join us next year.
Hey Biff! Show everyone your trophy.
Bill

[Tailchaser]

[quote=JagerBomb]The first was a 1.5 positive snap roll followed by a 4 point roll in the opposite roll direction followed by a half snap roll in the opposite roll direction of the 4 point roll.

The second was a diamond loop with a 2 point roll on the 1st upline with a negative snaproll on the second segment with a 2 0f 4 point roll on the third segment and a 1.5 negative snaproll on the final segment.

The third manuever was the one that I found most difficult. Roll 90 degrees to knife edge, make a 90 degree turn, then 2 point roll to the outside, turn 90 degrees then 2 point roll to the inside, turn 90 degrees then 2 point roll to the outside, turn 90 degrees then roll back to stright and level.

See, this is how I thought it would be, even if you do the best low rolling harrier in history 1 inch from the ground, and all the heart stopping moves known to man, if you don't do the required moves your score will be effected big time as it should be.

Thanks Mark for the answer, maybe it will let others see what the judges were truly looking for.

My hats off to you, having that much pressure had to be really stressful.....nice job!

Chuck

[STR8HUCKIN]

maybe they should change the name. It seems like with all the other competitons being judged heavily in precision the "xtreme flight championship" should be more about on the deck crazy 3d. the "average" person who doesnt fly isnt going to be compelled to watch a bunch of rolls. Maybe they should do a truly EXTREME comp. to try and bring a little more diversity to the people atending and flying in these meets.

[falconpilot]

Wayne,

I truely believe that the only way to every be judged 100% objectively, would be to have everyone fly the same exact airplane, the same exact color scheme, and fly from an area where the judges can't see you! We can't and don't want to do that as it takes away everyone's ability to be individuals. I believe that the level of fairness that all these judges show us is amazing considering the skill of the top pilots. Judge the airplane, not the pilot..Easier said than done..We all have a preconcieved ideal of what we'll see when we see the big QQ Yak taken to air by QQ himself. Where do we get this preconcieved ideal? From expectations that we have set in place from how he has always preformed in the past. We get that ideal from flight that we have seen him do before, so we EXPECT to see it again. Almost always perfection! So, when he does miss one point of a three point role, we might miss it and give him a 10 when it should be a zero, because we expect it to be perfection!
What I'm getting at here is that we all do the best we can judging, but it is always hard to truely judge the top guys airplane, and not the guys behind the sticks. Everyone should keep this in mind, while judging and being judged, and try and be as fair as possible to everyone..

It sounds like all the guys at the XFC went above and beyond, so hats off the the fliers, judges and the guys that make it happen!!!

Jim

[RightThrust]

I'm glad to see this thread is getting back to order and misunderstandings and misjudgments and possibly mis-decisions have been resolved. Fred and Baron are more careful than anyone I know about combining any sort of judging and flying within the family at an event because they know with Fred's name as the Chief TOC, XFC, JR Challange, etc... judge and Baron's name at the top of many large contest's they can be put in the spot light very easy with judging concerns. Fred never judges Unlimited at an IMAC event Baron is flying in, Fred never judges a freestyle that Baron flies in.

Secondly, I have to also extend my thanks and gratitude to everyone that made the contest happen and all the pilots that put in all the hours to create their routines for the event. The judges do have the hardest and most stressful job, it's easy to put them at blame for your favorite pilot not winning but they are judging as technical as possible. Though judging is subjective at times, it is so technical that the scores are usually very similar. Also, thanks to all the croud that came out, they are a huge part of the contest. If it weren't for them we wouldn't fly as low or as hard. The XFC is business on our end but a very entertaining event for spectators and I hope more and more come each year.

Be careful what you say on the internet. :-)

-Kelly Gerber

[AEROCOLOR]

If the event was to be judged on risktaking such as low and slow flight then the only way to declare a winner is to have the audience determine the outcome. I know as common as the torqueroll has become they still cheer when it is done.If I were a pilot proud of my skills I would not want that to be the determining factor in a contest that pays prize money. We really wanted to have a way to seperate the floppers from the guys that actually had control of the aircraft. Required aresti did just that. The difficulty factor goes way up to incorporate these required moves into a freestyle that is both precise and visually pleasing. Even I can torqueroll, harrier and flop around but to see these guys put it all together timed to music and the clock is still amazing to watch. I used to think the heli pilots were just shoving the sticks and keeping above ground until I observed they could duplicate the same routine over and over. Noll and Somenzini are excellent pilots and both will win their share of contests. It`s a pleasure to watch them compete so enjoy it if you get the opportunity.