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Old 06-27-2010, 03:37 PM   #1
Harold Smith
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Default Ethanol

Where you you gassers that live in San Antonio, Tx. find any ethanol free gas? I live in Pleasanton. None to be found here. I know in my outboard I can add Sta-Bil to the fuel and it won't hurt the rubber seals , is that the case with these gas engines. Do ya'll just fly the ethanol and replace the diaphram often?
Thanks, Smitty
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Old 06-27-2010, 05:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ethanol

Hey Smitty.
I buy my gas at the local airport. It's very close to the field and only a little over a dollar a gallon more than pump gas. Avgas has no alcohol in it. It also smells much better as it's burning & won't stink up your hands or your car if it spills.
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Old 06-27-2010, 06:49 PM   #3
Harold Smith
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Default Re: Ethanol

Thanks Phil. I have a small airport near my home.
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:28 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ethanol

Smitty,
You may get mixed opinions on using avgas in models. I started using it almost 2 years ago on the recommendation of Don Apostolico of Don's hobbies. Don is a long-time modeler who has never steered me wrong. Feel free to give him a call to discuss this. He is a really nice guy and loves to talk RC. Just Google up Don's hobbies.

Phil
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ethanol

not sure what is in av gas, but DA does say not to use it in their engines.
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ethanol

You can buy 100 octane unleaded out of the pump at alamo performance off perrin bitel road.
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Old 06-27-2010, 08:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ethanol

This is one of the mixed opinions I was referring to. Don Apostolico was one of my first contacts in the RC world two years ago when I first started flying. He is a well respected, long time figure in the GS airplane community, and sold me on the use of 100LL avgas way before I ever had any reason to consult with the manufacturer of the engine I was using. I currently run it in my 50,85 & 100cc DA engines, and plan to continue the practice in the DA-150 powered Extra 260 that will be airworthy in the next 4 weeks. I've had zero problems with any of my engines, they start & run flawlessly every time. I understand anyone's concern with going against a manufacturer's recommendations. My advice would be to do your research, speak with people you trust, speak with DA, make up your own mind & do what you believe is best. Personally I think the good outweighs the bad in this case.

Last edited by Phil Griffin; 06-28-2010 at 06:06 AM.
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Old 06-27-2010, 08:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ethanol

If by often you mean every 20 years or so, then yes. Just don't drain everything all the time and let things dry out. Pick a oil that has stabilizers. And don't use gas more than about a month old, also keep it out of the sun. Ethanol will not present problems if you don't follow basic procedures.
That said if you don't mind paying extra for AVgas then by all means use it. Otherwise run high octane pump gas. The extra octane will help get you through to the end of a can of gas, especialy durring the summer months.
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Old 06-27-2010, 09:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ethanol

We had a situation down at our field a few weeks ago, where a guy borrowed his friends 55cc motor that had been running on Avgas (cause his motor destroyed a bearing), bolted it into his plane and tried running his normal pump gas on the same carby settings and it just wouldnt run... kept back firing and carrying on... not quite sure why... but they changed it for a tank of avgas based mix and it fired first flip...

not sure why avgas is not recomended... only reason I can think of is lead build up over time... but not 100% on that...
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:11 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ethanol

100ll has about 1/2 of the lead that cargas used to have at most. You are really looking at about 1g of lead per gallon of avgas or less. I agree that the plusses far outweigh the risks of automotive gas. Here we have alcohol in all blends of gas. Remember what the lead and or alcohol does- It raises the octane of the fuel to prevent detonation. By using alcohol the manufacturers can use lower grade oil to start with and add the 10% alcohol to very cheaply raise the octane so that a motor will run without knocking. The other thing to remember is that your car has a computer so it can retard the timing if it starts to knock so you can get away with supplying it with very crappy fuel.. Additives in autogas vary from station to station, brand to brand. I got some gas last year that was old but had been "tuned up" by the station owner by adding a couple thousand gallons of tolulene to it. It melted my tank stoppers in a couple of planes. Ran fine in my truck though.. DA doesn't recommend avgas because low compression motors can suffer from lead buildup from running 100ll. This is an issue that the aviation industry has been facing for a long time. A lot of full scale engines designed for 80/87 will plug up the valves if run on 100ll. (I remember having to ream the lead out of the guides on my dads cherokee at least twice as they were jammed up with lead) The solution is to add some scavenging compound to your fuel if you are concerned. A quart of scavenging compound will mix up 600gallons + of fuel. You can buy it from aircraft spruce for about 40bucks. Watch out, many states are going to start upping the ante and adding even more ethanol to their fuel...A couple have 20%mandated by 2013....
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:51 PM   #11
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Default Re: Ethanol

I have indiscriminately bought gas from the pump at any one of the many gas stations/Shop-n-Robs for 5 years.

I am sure some of'em had alcohol....

I ran the Amsoil 100:1 until recently

Never had a fuel related problem..

I am guessing those sorts of problems become more common as one attempts to squeeze out the last ounce of power...

Never ran the AvGas 100LL in anything.....

I would love to buy a alcohol carb.... one with parts that don't dry out.... and I might actually consider running alcohol.... need twice as much gas... but I usually land after 11 minutes with nearly a half tank anyway....

Prolly pick up 10% more power......
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:33 AM   #12
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Default Re: Ethanol

Thanks so much for all the feedback. Thats what makes this such a great site. --- Smitty
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:07 AM   #13
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Default Re: Ethanol

IMveryHO... go to the gas station you like.. buy gas.. mix oil, go fly.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:53 AM   #14
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Default Re: Ethanol

I've used a blend of 50% midgrade pump and 50% VP C16 racing gasoline for almost three years now.

I have two DA's (85/100) and they run great, smell great, and don't make the plug(s) look like the bottom of a BBQ pit.

Leaded gas IMHO is great for engines.

Alky/Ethanol would be a great alternative if the seals in the carb would tolerate it. To fully take advantage it would need higher compression though as it's a higher octane fuel. Would run cooler too.

Good luck.

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Old 06-28-2010, 07:55 AM   #15
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Default Re: Ethanol

I just buy pump gas. No problems at all.
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