Warbirds in IMAC???

[Judge]

This is getting a little wearisome, as it usually does when arguing over rules like this one. The intent of the rule is clear. Was the plane ever used in IAC, or designed for IAC competition? Warbirds clearly were not.

I see no advantage to anyone who wants to fly a Warbird in an IMAC competition, but I guess if you "really" want to parse the rule you could convince yourself that some Warbirds "might" qualify under the most parsed and over thought interpretation of the rule (Kris-ified if you will).

For me I would ask if the plane in question was rated for the types of figures we fly. A C-172 is not, and therefore would not qualify. I do not know if the placard on a civilian certified P-51 says what it is restricted to doing. Certainly it is capable of the figures (probably) but it was clearly NOT designed for that task, which is what I think we really need to keep in mind on this topic.

[sweetpea]

I would never say a warbird had an advantage,


but if someone wants to fly IMAC but can't afford another plane do we restrict them? I agree a warbird would be a bad choice, but not everyone goes to events to win. Some show to improve their own flying or for the friends.

One of the biggest grips over a pilot figure is cost (not weight). with 40% planes pilots going over $100 and they don't do anything mechanical or electrical for the plane.

[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	This is getting a little wearisome, as it usually does when arguing over rules like this one. The intent of the rule is clear. Was the plane ever used in IAC, or designed for IAC competition? Warbirds clearly were not. I see no advantage to anyone who wants to fly a Warbird in an IMAC competition, but I guess if you "really" want to parse the rule you could convince yourself that some Warbirds "might" qualify under the most parsed and over thought interpretation of the rule (Kris-ified if you will). For me I would ask if the plane in question was rated for the types of figures we fly. A C-172 is not, and therefore would not qualify. I do not know if the placard on a civilian certified P-51 says what it is restricted to doing. Certainly it is capable of the figures (probably) but it was clearly NOT designed for that task, which is what I think we really need to keep in mind on this topic.

Oh come ON Bill. . . . . . .

Can't we just do it because it's FUN????

I mean. . .really. . wouldn't it be soooo cool to have a 3D FW-190 . . .A Spitfire in Freestyle. . or watch a Mustang do the Unlimited sequence as well as an Extra??

Hey, given the size of most warbirds. . we could fly 25-27% planes!!!! so much for the 40% "fascination"

Nelson Hole did Freestyle with a KADET at the Masters a few years ago . . . .now THAT is fun!!!!

[50%plane]

I was told that the rule applied only to the "skewing" of planes and that any plane was legal for IMAC as long as it was within the 10% rule. In fact, Mike Hurley eluded to this in one of his old columns in MA. I'm the kindda person who will fly an underdog plane because I'm confident in my skill. Heck, last week I was doing rolling harriers with a Telemaster trainer that I had modded into a bipe.(picture an underpowered plane with two trainer wings doing that) Sure a Yak might fly better in a comp, but I personally think they are ugly and hate looking at one Yak after another. Everybody is flying that and with the limited selection of aerobatic aircraft, I would fly anything that isn't well known to it's advantage if given the chance sometime. I don't care about winning, but I will do something for a laugh, or to provide some lightheartedness in a heavily competitive environment. Kris, good luck! Please get a vid of you flying a warbird in an IMAC event.


50%

[JeeUm]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Toro
	if you exceed these degrees than therefore you are engaged in aerobatic flight, and by FAA rule require a parachute and to be in certain airspace unless performing in an airshow. So if your going out doing loops, than you are exceeding 20 degree departure and should be wearing a parachute, and flying in certain airspace as you are engaged in aerobatic flight. Im sure Matt can define totally.... Ive forgotten some of the rules as I havent been current for a couple of years now.

Not 100% sure, but I think if your alone you don't need to wear a parachute, also if your doing spin training with a CFI you also don't need to wear them, also I think it's 30 degrees of pitch.

[as722]

Judge is correct, and yes you can fly a war bird in basic. In fact my buddy was going to fly his "flying lawnmower" in basic as a joke this past weekend but never made it to the contest.

Albert

[MetHerInBaghdad]

You know, you can just fly a contest in Basic and see what happens.
If you were to win, and follow that with another win someplace else you would have... as they say on my block... 'street cred'.

If you showed up with a couple wins under your belt, you may be a good chance of getting the ok to compete with it. I would LOVE to see an F4 do a straight 4 point roll, or any type of snap.

Why not give it a shot?

[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by VIPER69
	You know, you can just fly a contest in Basic and see what happens. If you were to win, and follow that with another win someplace else you would have... as they say on my block... 'street cred'. If you showed up with a couple wins under your belt, you may be a good chance of getting the ok to compete with it. I would LOVE to see an F4 do a straight 4 point roll, or any type of snap. Why not give it a shot?

Well. . I've been flying IMAC for 7 years now, and fly in Advanced. . kind of hard to start over in Basic, ya know?

[MetHerInBaghdad]

Now I see the rub. Back into the fire with this conversation.... haha.

[sweetpea]

	Quote: Originally Posted by as722
	In fact my buddy was going to fly his "flying lawnmower" in basic as a joke this past weekend but never made it to the contest. Albert

Now I'd pay his entry fee to see that! God forbid he beats me though


And I have seen a turbine jet do a pattern sequence inside the "box". so I'm sure a warbird can do the manuevers inside the limits, though they may not be as pretty as a plane built specifically for it.

[Matt Chapman]

GeeUmm,

You're correct! 30 degrees pitch, no parachute if solo!

So, just to add fuel to the fire;
If "WE" were to show up at a war bird fly-in and ask if we would be allowed to fly our Pitts, yaks, Extra or Edge....Just because it "fun" ...think anyone would let us register and fly?

I THINK NOT! (unless of course it was Biff or Texx)

[why_fly_high]

Ok, to play devil's advocate, what level of competition must the plane be capable of. I belive the Primary Category in IAC is a 1 turn spin, loop, roll, and an aerobatic 270 turn. I don't think a spin is a good idea with most warbirds but I bet there are some out there that could give you a one turn spin and keep the rest in the box.

Dan

[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Matt Chapman
	GeeUmm, You're correct! 30 degrees pitch, no parachute if solo! So, just to add fuel to the fire; If "WE" were to show up at a war bird fly-in and ask if we would be allowed to fly our Pitts, yaks, Extra or Edge....Just because it "fun" ...think anyone would let us register and fly? I THINK NOT! (unless of course it was Biff or Texx)

I'll put guns and a WW1 gunsite and bomb racks on my Dr-109 and call it an ME/DR-109 MAtt . . Will that count??? Even add a few splats of camo paint to look the part. .

Of course, the "low pass victory roll" thingie might get boring so I'd have to Pop-up and TR at least once. . .

there's a bit of a difference between a "Warbirds only" and an IMAC event though . .IMAC Does already include planes that have combat variants. so the cross-over could be made in one direction.

[MetHerInBaghdad]

you may have some issues because warbirds don't have rudders or throttle response do they?

At least the ones I have seen fly at two speeds... wide open, and taxi speed.
Never ever seen a rudder deflect.

[MetHerInBaghdad]

where is that friggin' Bearcat you were building Jim?????