Aero-Works 50cc Yak 54 ARF?

[bodywerks]

Hmmm...I guess I went there. Oh well!

[JeeUm]

I'm still trying to figure out how NAFTA and Ross Perot ended up in a thread asking about a 50cc arf? LOL!

[Big J]

To explain my reference to NAFTA would just inject more politics into this thread, which I won't do. I apologize for having mentioned it in the first place.

[TrojanMan]

It is a good flying airplane!
How is the weather where you are??

Just getting us back on track,

Jim

[JeeUm]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Big J
	To explain my reference to NAFTA would just inject more politics into this thread, which I won't do. I apologize for having mentioned it in the first place.

Not at all, just trying to lighten the mood a bit.

[Steve Campbell]

	Quote: Originally Posted by bodywerks
	I won't go there. It's a group of guys from one state that all fly together and tell lies together that have problems with this plane, and have done there very best to slam the product even though the majority of AWX Yak owners couldn't be more pleased. I won't name the person, but I know for a fact that one of them admits they can't fly worth a darn, yet blames the plane's "weak" construction for his "less-than-perfect" landings. Both "weak" and "less-than-perfect" are highly open to interpretation. To me, "weak" is any construction that won't hold up to the rigors of flight, and has nothing to do with how well it handles poor landings. And "less than perfect" is a landing that bounces 1 inch off the ground a couple times before finally settling in, not a landing that stalls 2 feet off the ground or is flown directly into the ground - those are what I call crashes. And if I did that and the plane broke, I'd have no one to blame but myself for the bad landing attempt and for purchasing a plane that was beyond my flying ability.

Tell lies???

Beyond their flying ability???

And you know this how?

I suppose next you'll tell me that the gentle bounce on the fifth landing that CRACKED the cheap-a$$ "carbon fiber" gear on my H9 Extra was my fault somehow? Or that the rudder failure (also experienced by others) was due to my poor flying/landing? And that all the others who have experienced gear delamination are lying and bought planes "beyond their flying skills"??

C'mon dude; get real. Those guys' writing looked pretty lucid and competent to me.

You, OTOH, sound like an apologist for Aero-Works. Face it; this genre of model airplane is built far too lightly for heavy, vibrating gas engines. Some survive better than others, but just because not EVERY example of a given plane fails certainly doesn't mean there isn't a problem there.

Seen the AirWild site and their announcement regarding the big Yak? Too bad other firms don't step up to the plate like that.

[bodywerks]

"telling lies" was a reference to what all of us do at our club field. Don't tell me you never heard the expression.
If they can't land a plane, without bouncing a foot or two off the ground every time, then perhaps this plane is beyond their ability. Also, if memory serves, they fly off grass. Grass can do wonders to the structural integrity of the landing gear mount if they come in too hot or stall it in. Also, the guy that mentioned that he can't fly worth a crap (pretty much using his words) is a guy that I sold my EF Yak to and I talked to him at length on the phone. It was a long time ago, but I think he even told me that he was going to get someone else to do the test flight on it because he lacked the confidence.
As for the cracked CF gear, you are talking about a completely different plane.
I am not an apologist for Aeroworks. They really have nothing to be sorry about. They fly their planes on a regular basis with not one failure, whatsoever. And they do nothing differently when they assemble them.
The real problem here is that no -one nowadays can be made happy with a product. It's either too expensive or of "poor quality" in their eyes, yet they continue to buy ARF's from China, and continue to complain about them (I've been found guilty of this in the past, too). Many of these people weren't flying 10 years ago, or they would appreciate the quality they are getting for the price they pay. I used to build proffesionally, back in the day (around '95), and we would get $2200 in LABOR ALONE to build a 33-35% Pirate Models kit, which was a partially built kit. Today, you can get an ARF for less than 1/3 the price, and that's before considering inflation! The other equally major problem here is that no one is willing to take responsibility for their actions. They insist that anything that happens to their plane is the manufacturers fault and they did everything perfectly and couldn't possibly have contributed to whatever failure occured. Pretty childish.
If people keep complaining about ARF's out of China, the "cheap ARF" market will go away and you'll be back to paying $3000 for a 100cc ARF.
I know the guys at Aeroworks, but am not sponsored or employed by them. I do spend time at their shop whenever I am in the area, or when I see them at the flying field. I know for a fact that they care a great deal about their products and test them THOROUGHLY. Their 50cc Yak had TONS of flights on it before they went into production and it never had the problems that a very few others have had.
As for being too light, how can you say that when the EF Yak was typically at least a pound lighter than this plane, yet everyone loved it? The key to it is maintenance! I go through my planes thouroughly after the first and second flight, and every 3-5 flights after. It is not uncommon on any plane to find a loose joint or fastener on occasion, and if you don't catch it on the ground, it will come back to haunt you in the air.
And that was Aviation models that did the announcement, not AirWild - I don't even think they have a Yak.... Thankfully, Aeroworks has not had failures like that, but have mentioned a few little things on their support forum at RCU.

[Steve Campbell]

	Quote: Originally Posted by bodywerks
	And that was Aviation models that did the announcement, not AirWild - I don't even think they have a Yak.... Thankfully, Aeroworks has not had failures like that, but have mentioned a few little things on their support forum at RCU.

You're right; my mistake. But it would seem that the Aero-Works 50cc Yak now comes with an addendum sheet telling you to cover the LE strips and add wood in a few places to beef up the structure, etc. WHY would they put that addendum in the kits, if there was no problem? There is a problem and they know about it.

I said "genre"; as in this entire class of airplane, not just the Aero-Works. I had the 68" EF Yak and got rid of it because, in wind, it was the most squirrelly model I'd ever handled.

Yes, the H9 Extra is a totally different airplane, but most of this size/style (at least, the ones I've looked at) are built very similarly. My point was that a lot of folks have experienced exactly the same failures on a given airframe; failures that are attributable to either too-light of a construction (the rudder, in this case) or a cheap, skimped-on part (the landing gear).

Dude, my entire objective here is NOT to bash a particular manufacturer or product. I just get extremely annoyed when I see someone glossing over or ignoring obvious defects/problems in the name of a great vendor, etc., etc. The term is "lemming", and I'm sure you've seen it as much as I have; guys who sing the praises of a product or company while totally ignoring/dismissing documented troubles.

That's what your post looked like to me; and still does, for that matter. You talk about "willing to take responsibility for their actions"... yet you don't KNOW that they ALL crash-landed, set it down hard, etc. But you're certainly assuming that. If you didn't intend to give that impression, well, I guess I need to work on my perception skills, eh?

[bodywerks]

They may have sent out addendums, but it was to protect themselves, I'm sure, from the carelessness/inexperience of some consumers. As I stated before, their Yak flew several, several times without the clear covering over the leading edges or the wooden dowls/cotter pin mod in the alignment tubes and never once had a problem. To this day, I don't think they even implimented the wooden dowl mod.
I will say this - Aeroworks may have one fault, and that's not protecting themselves enough from the carelessness of some their consumers and assuming that only people like them will buy/fly them. By that, I mean people with building experience and people that actually maintain their planes.
Nowadays, people have more cash than sense, and the affordability of GS planes gets people buying planes that they are not really ready for - you have to admit there's truth to that.
Sure, Aeroworks doesn't just hand out free planes to every customer that crashes or breaks one and insists it's Aeroworks fault. There are a lot of companies that do. But unlike so many other ARF manufacturers out there, Aeroworks actually does extensive testing to each plane and makes necessary changes before it goes into production. We're talking months of flying, modifying, testing. They don't just build a smaller or larger version of a model and get some sponsored pilot to do a video of it hovering in front of them, and then start production.
And for people that can't assume some risk or admit that there is a possibilty (a GOOD possibility) that they, too, or alone, caused the failure to occur, perhaps they should consider one of the charity ARF companies out there.
You say I don't KNOW that they ALL crash-landed, set it down hard, etc. But I'm certainly assuming that. You're right, I don't know for sure, but you don't know that they all greased them in perfectly or that they didn't possibly cause some damage that they didn't catch the flight before, or that they used the proper heat when re-sealing the covering on the leading edges or that they resealed them at all. Remember, there's 3 sides to every story. The customer's side, Aeroworks side, and the truth.

[bodywerks]

Oh, and have you ever read one of their warranty disclaimers?

It is important to notify Aeroworks of any damage or problems with the model within 30 days of receiving your airplane to be covered under warranty. If you wish to return this aircraft for any reason a 15% restock fee will be charged to the customer. In addition the customer is responsible for all return shipping cost and all prior shipping cost will not be refunded.
Parts will be exchanged or replaced once the original item is returned at the owner’s
expense. If you have any problems, please contact Aeroworks.
Aeroworks cannot insure the skill of the modeler and can not influence the builder during the construction or use of this aircraft, and therefore, will not be accountable for any property damage, bodily injury or death caused by this aircraft.
Aeroworks cannot insure the skill of the modeler and can not influence the builder during the construction or use of this aircraft, and therefore,

the purchaser/operator accepts all responsibilityof any and all structural or mechanical failures.

It seems pretty clear-cut to me...If you don't like the way they choose to do business, don't buy their product. But for goodness sake, don't buy one and then come on the internet and start bashing because they didn't bend the rules for you (I am speaking about the people on the other forum, in particular). Nuff said!

[whirlyspud]

I can't speak for anyone else, as I only saw mine go in. My plane was set down too hard. No lie there. It had to break something. Looking over the wood that did break, I decided that for me, it was only a matter of time before the gear got ripped out anyway. The two beams that the gear are glued too were 3 ply lite ply. The quility of which was not all that good. The original screws were junk, but they fixed that. I'd buy another one when this one gets done in. I'll also beef it up right from the start.

Mike Dukes

Bodyworks, It is clear to me from your posts that your head must be stuck up someone else's oriface. I stated what happened with mine, and you call me a lier for it. Screw you.

[SleepyC]

OK FELLAS this one is going no where.
It's a He said, she said type of thing.
Some love it and some hate it, its like Garlic on a Pizza.

Since this thread seems to keep getting more and more PERSONAL I'm closing shop on it.

Thanks.
S