Discussion rolling harriers

[DoubleA]

Do you guys fly with the knifeedge inputs or without. Or are there any other mixes that you have added to your plane?

[theKM]

	Quote: Originally Posted by DoubleA
	Do you guys fly with the knifeedge inputs or without. Or are there any other mixes that you have added to your plane?

knife edge mixing is simply part of trimming the plane to fly accurately... when you input elevator you don't want it to roll or yaw and thankfully most planes don't... but similarly with rudder you want the plane to yaw and not anything else, so this is what the knife edge mixing accomplishes. these mixes remain on all the time... and once the plane is trimmed right you'll fly many maneuvers have been helped in some subtle and not so subtle ways.

[STLAV8R]

	Quote: Originally Posted by theKM
	knife edge mixing is simply part of trimming the plane to fly accurately... when you input elevator you don't want it to roll or yaw and thankfully most planes don't... but similarly with rudder you want the plane to yaw and not anything else, so this is what the knife edge mixing accomplishes. these mixes remain on all the time... and once the plane is trimmed right you'll fly many maneuvers have been helped in some subtle and not so subtle ways.

+1

[DoubleA]

Thanks I have an 11x and I am flying a pilot yak. just got n a slick 540.
I am a weekend warrior. I have been flying my yak
Without any mixes. When I get this slick up and going I want
to use mixing if needed. I have yet to learn when mixing is needed.

[Phil Griffin]

	Quote: Originally Posted by BOSSIER_ROB
	Exactly. When I first started RHs, I tried to keep a set throttle setting. That allowed me to focus on rudder/elevator inputs and timing. Once getting a good hang of it, I started adding/taking away throttle to control altitude better. After getting more improved, the throttle blipping was to keep the tail as close to the ground as possible without jumping a foot up or slamming the surfaces into the dirt hard. Don't focus on throttle. Give it what it needs to keep flying for now. Refine it for precise control later once you've got the hang of rolling harriers.

This sounds like good advice. I watch Stephen, who is very good at rollers in any direction, and he hits the throttle at a certain point in each roll. Amazing stuff to watch down low and close...

[plydrms]

I'm a new member that just joined. I'd like to thank Bossier Rob already for some great advice. He sure looks as though he "owns" this manuever. I can keep a straight line pretty well on axis. My trouble starts when trying to roll and turn. I tend to lose my stick rhythm when turning in the same direction as rolling..(left rolls, circling left). I really lose it when say trying to change direction of circling, like say in a figure 8. Rob really does this well. I think that my rudder inputs start yawing the nose into the ground instead of keeping the top rudder consistent. Should rudder be used to help the turn or always timed to hold the nose up, like in the slow roll?

[theKM]

	Quote: Originally Posted by plydrms
	I'm a new member that just joined. I'd like to thank Bossier Rob already for some great advice. He sure looks as though he "owns" this manuever. I can keep a straight line pretty well on axis. My trouble starts when trying to roll and turn. I tend to lose my stick rhythm when turning in the same direction as rolling..(left rolls, circling left). I really lose it when say trying to change direction of circling, like say in a figure 8. Rob really does this well. I think that my rudder inputs start yawing the nose into the ground instead of keeping the top rudder consistent. Should rudder be used to help the turn or always timed to hold the nose up, like in the slow roll?

good way to start is to turn or control direction by way of a key input... either elevator or rudder, an extra input on that surface at the right time will get you generally headed in the direction. eventually with practice you'll be turning off both elevator and rudder inputs.

here's a diagram that generally shows the ideal control inputs... but while learning it's common that you'll manage to hit your control target with one control input and then just try and split the difference with the other. For me it was elevator... others turning is easier leading with rudder.

...the reason a turn doesn't simply target to the left is that in a harrier we also have to fight gravity, so there is always an "up" component to them...

[TAS Foamies]

practice going 1 roll in both directions over and over. get used to the transition. i am a right roller, but i have learned to focus on both equally to show variety. practicing transitions from left to right is the best thing to do! it helped me! after you get bored of that, go like 1 left, 3 right, half roll left half right, 1 roll left, etc... mix it up!

[husker]

	Quote: Originally Posted by plydrms
	I'm a new member that just joined. I'd like to thank Bossier Rob already for some great advice. He sure looks as though he "owns" this manuever. I can keep a straight line pretty well on axis. My trouble starts when trying to roll and turn. I tend to lose my stick rhythm when turning in the same direction as rolling..(left rolls, circling left). I really lose it when say trying to change direction of circling, like say in a figure 8. Rob really does this well. I think that my rudder inputs start yawing the nose into the ground instead of keeping the top rudder consistent. Should rudder be used to help the turn or always timed to hold the nose up, like in the slow roll?

To change direction you have to break your rythm...so look at it as you are steering rather than repeating inputs. Sometimes it's easy to get caught up in the "stir" and forget to "steer".

The diagram that km made is probably the best learning tool there is

[plydrms]

Wonderful stuff, thank you! I'm glad to hear that the rhythm stir has to be broken to change turn direction. I'll work on that with a slow simulator speed. That diagram was very well though out. I think that I understand most of it. Are the red arc "control target's" the direction of turn? Maybe the centered arcs are for straight flight. Are the bottom 2 boxes for turns to the right and left? I guess both rudder and elevator are being used to counter act gravity. Am I close with the diagram study at all? -thanks you guys

[theKM]

	Quote: Originally Posted by plydrms
	Wonderful stuff, thank you! I'm glad to hear that the rhythm stir has to be broken to change turn direction. I'll work on that with a slow simulator speed. That diagram was very well though out. I think that I understand most of it. Are the red arc "control target's" the direction of turn? Maybe the centered arcs are for straight flight. Are the bottom 2 boxes for turns to the right and left? I guess both rudder and elevator are being used to counter act gravity. Am I close with the diagram study at all? -thanks you guys

ya, bottom diagram is rolling right and turning left... one above that is rolling right and turning right

for rolling to the left, read the bottom three diagrams from right to left.

[husker]

	Quote: Originally Posted by plydrms
	Wonderful stuff, thank you! I'm glad to hear that the rhythm stir has to be broken to change turn direction. I'll work on that with a slow simulator speed. That diagram was very well though out. I think that I understand most of it. Are the red arc "control target's" the direction of turn? Maybe the centered arcs are for straight flight. Are the bottom 2 boxes for turns to the right and left? I guess both rudder and elevator are being used to counter act gravity. Am I close with the diagram study at all? -thanks you guys

Sounds like you've got it

[plydrms]

Well, here we go, back to school. This looks rough. I had some bad habits committed to muscle memory...

[Huckin Chuck]

I pretty much have Rollers both right and left. I can very easily Roll right, turn left and Roll left turn right (just revert memory back to rolling circle, which i learned before harrier. I did it in an odd way, i learned high speed, fast rolling circles before trying rolling harriers so it took me 100s of hours to get that muscle memory out and the harrier one in). So i can rolll while turning the opposite direction great, but if i want to roll left go left or roll right go right I can get 3/4 of the way and then i lose it. I have tried it in slow motion (50% sim speed) and it appears you need to reverse the rudder near the end of your turn. Whats up with this?

[theKM]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Huckin Chuck
	I pretty much have Rollers both right and left. I can very easily Roll right, turn left and Roll left turn right (just revert memory back to rolling circle, which i learned before harrier. I did it in an odd way, i learned high speed, fast rolling circles before trying rolling harriers so it took me 100s of hours to get that muscle memory out and the harrier one in). So i can rolll while turning the opposite direction great, but if i want to roll left go left or roll right go right I can get 3/4 of the way and then i lose it. I have tried it in slow motion (50% sim speed) and it appears you need to reverse the rudder near the end of your turn. Whats up with this?

...it's just getting used to the orientation of the plane, etc etc... it's just practice from here. just maintain the stir timing as best you can, and keep practicing... you'll get there