FuntananX50 convesion...help needed!

[p sme]

Hello,
I am planning to convert a funtanaX 50 to electric, and I really don't know what setup to use. Inrunner or outrunner? What batteries, motor, ESC etc. I just noticed that the new Great Planes Ammo inrunners look pretty sweet to. If anybody has any experience with them please chime in. Any help would be greatly appreciated! All suggestions welcome. Thanks

[Larry3215]

How much does it weigh?

What type of flying will you do - aerobatics, sport, 3d? hard 3D?

Budget limits?

Larry

[p sme]

I plan to do some hard 3d with it. The plane is supposed to wiegh 4-4.5 lbs. It will probably be a little more when converted. As far as budget, less is better, but no definate limit, but I am hoping not to spend more than 500 for the power system.

[Larry3215]

Here is how I would start.

For hard 3D I like 200 watts per pound for a peak number. I assume the worst case on weight, so go with 5 lbs. That means you need 1000 watts peak and probably will use about 250-300 average.

The next major decision is geared inrunner or outrunner. There are advantages to both.

Outrunner is easier, simpler, quieter, probably less expensive, weigh a tad less in the lower power ranges, but the same or more in the hi power ranges.

Geared inrunners are more efficient, far more flexible (more prop and battery choices), can be run at hi voltage/low amps.

I personally prefer geared inrunners for hi power setups, but thats up to you. The biggest advantage is the ability to swing a huge prop on hi voltage.

Once you decide on inrunner vrs outrunner you will know what pack voltage you can go with.

If you go outrunner, and want to swing a big prop, you will probably be stuck with 4S or 5S max because of rpm limits, but that depends on the motor. That means for 4S, you need to pull about 75 amps. For 5S you need to pull 60 amps. Thats a lot of amps either way. I would go with a 5000 to 8000 mahr pack.

If you go inrunner, Id go for 6S or more. 6S gets you down to the 50 amp range and 10S gets you down to 30 amp range. I would be tempted to use 3ea 3S1P TP 2100 packs as a 9S1P config. They will easily handle 35 amp peaks, they are very light weight too.

That means you need an inrunner with a Kv in the 1000 - 1300 range trhat can handle 40 amps max. Adjust gear ratio to get the largest prop that will fit pulling 35 amps or so peak.

There are about 1000 combos out there that would work. Its a matter of going thru the specs and playing with numbers.

Good luck!

Larry

[p sme]

Hey

thanks for the input. I like the idea of an inrunner with the 9s 1p pack. My only question would be how long the flights would be if I only had 2100 mAh? Also, what about this motor for this setup

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXLXA1&P=7

and some sort of matching ESC, I don't know which one. If anybody has any other good Ideas for motors and ESCs that could handle this sort of current, let me know. Also, how do I decide what ESC to get? Thanks for all your help.

[Larry3215]

That particular motor does not have enough info listed to tell what it can handle. mIts also on the heavy side at 16 oz!

How about one of these - both have excelent reps and performance.

Medusa MR-036-050-1000-5 (or the 1300-5) at 9oz and $119.00

http://www.medusaproducts.com/motors...MR036050XXXX-5

Or

Mega motors ACn22/30/3 (or22/30/4) (1270 or 940 Kv) 7.77 oz and $115.00

http://www.modelelectronicscorp.com/

Pete at MEC also carries the Monster box gear box that is a great match to the mega or medusa in this power range.

Larry

[Larry3215]

Another premium option would be a Neu 1506/3Y with a 6.7/1 gear box. Pricey, but more efficient and lighter and more power.

http://www.e-flightline.com/

There are some hacker motors that would work great also and probably a Himax on the low end.

Larry

[Larry3215]

	Quote: Originally Posted by p sme
	Hey thanks for the input. I like the idea of an inrunner with the 9s 1p pack. My only question would be how long the flights would be if I only had 2100 mAh? Also, what about this motor for this setup http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXLXA1&P=7 and some sort of matching ESC, I don't know which one. If anybody has any other good Ideas for motors and ESCs that could handle this sort of current, let me know. Also, how do I decide what ESC to get? Thanks for all your help.

Forgot to answer the flight time question.

That depends entirely on your average usage.

IF you fly the entire flight at full throttle, your flight time will be about 3 or 4 minutes max and the batteries and motor will not be happy.

If your like me and do a mix of 3D with aerobatics and some cruising around and lots of on/off throttle, then you should see 6 to 7 minutes easy.

Final weights and flying style are the key factors. If the plane ends up heavy and you are heavy on the left stick, you will have short flight times.

Take my 15 pound Ultimate 160 for example. Peak power is 3100 watts (just over 200 watts/pound) and draws 71 amps peak on a 12S1P 5000 mahr pack. However, I fly 7 to 8 minutes at a time and only use about 1/2 the pack. I spend most of my time at 1/4 throttle BUT I also do a full power 90 degree vertical take off with rolls to altitude followed by moderate aerobatics with a few short hovers and several more full power climbs thrown in. I like hearing the oooohhhhs and aahhhhhs and "Thats electric?!?!?" from the peanut gallery

If your plane take 3/4 stick to hover and you fly the entire flight hovering, you will use more of the pack. If it hovers at under 1/2 stick and you only do several short hovers you will use less

Less weight is always better then longer flight times on a 3D bird.

Larry

[p sme]

Thanks a ton for all the help!

Now if I were to use an outrunner, does anyone have any ideas on what motor to use. I was just looking at the E-flite 60 and it looks pretty good. Would this motor with a 6s 2p 4200 mAh pack give me the power I need? Once again, thanks for the input. I would be lost without you guys.

[Larry3215]

The Power 60 would work, but its also on the heavy side at 13 oz. That extra 1/2 pound will have a huge effect on flight charactistics.

The power 46 could probably be pushed to 1kw for short bursts, but it still weighs 10 oz.

The Cylon 60 would be a much better choice at 8 oz

http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=5653

or even the Himax HC5018-530 at 11 oz would be better

http://www.maxxprod.com/mpi/mpi-2601.html

Weight is a huge factor, so less is more

Larry

[SargeNZ]

For 1100W you should consider a Hyperion 4025/12 and 5S 3700 20C cells. A 15x10 is good for patterny aerobatics and a 16x8 should see you right for 3D. This is what im running in my fliton Edge 540 (My Avatar) It has given me zero trouble.

[p sme]

Thanks for all the ideas. for the Hyperion 4025/12, how would I make a 5s pack? I ammume I would have to buy one preassembled. I have access to numerous 3s packs of different sizes, but my guess is that 6s would burn up this motor? Also, with your setup, how long were your flights on average. Thanks again.

[Larry3215]

The Hyperion is again a good motor - but it weighs 14 oz. Also that pack will weigh several ounces more than a 6S TP2100 pack.

Maybe an extra pound by the time your done adding it all up.

Thats a lot of extra weight to be carring around.

There are good Axi motors and other brands - but weight is not your friend.

Larry

[p sme]

Ok i think I have come up with two possibilites

#1 Inrunner

Mega Motors ACn22/30/3 Pheonix 45A ESC Monster Gearbox. Total for this setup would run about $253 unwired from MEC. For batteries I would use a 9s1p 2100mAh. Everyone please let me know if something here is not right. *edit* would i need the pheonix hv 45 or is the standard able to handle 9s? thx

#2 Outrunner

Himax HC5030-390, pheonix 60A ESC, 6s2p lipo for a total of 4200 mAh. This setup would be about 260 without the battery, which would be 33% more than the inrunner.

It looks like they would be about the same price, outrunner would be a bit heavier, inrunner would have a little more thrust??? As far as flight times, I have now clue so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Once again, let me know what you guys think about these setups. Thanks a ton for your help.

[3Dpeter]

Hi!

I've converted the old version of the X50, the Funtana S40, but I think it's still very similar to the new X50. I'm very satisfied with the quality of the plane and especially, how rock solid it is in extreme 3D.

I use a geared inrunner, a Kontronik FUN 600-17 with a 5,2:1 Gearbox.
The contoller is a JETI or Hacker master 70 opto which is really a good choice because of its programming possibilities.
I use a Hyperion Litestorm CL 5s2p 4200mah pack which is absolutely a highend pack and very light. With this pack I fly up to 12 minutes in 3d and up to 16 minutes pattern style. Torqe rolls work well with 1/2 to 3/4 gas, but this is caused by the 2 - blade propeller. A 3 - blade prop would be more effective.

This setup is really bad ass. The motor is swinging a 16"x10" APC - e, and this is not the limit. Screws up to 18"x10" are realistic, but then the motor needs to be cooled additional and the landing gear must be changed. I reach a power level of 1200 Watts maximum in vertical full throttle passages. 60 Amps are no problem both for the motor and the pack.

I am from Austria, so I don't know which motors, controllers and packs are easy for you to get.

The big benefit of an outrunner is the price and the low noise. But an outrunner has not that agressive reaction on the gas stick, because the rotating mass is much bigger than the one of the inrunner.

If I'd use an outrunner in this plane, my choice would be a Hacker A50 - L or a Kontronik Kora, because these motors have an additional ball bearing in the front. My motor is similar to the Hacker B50 - L versions with gearbox.

To lighten the model, i would consider the use of smaller servos. There are very strong models from HITEC, like the 225 BB MG which is strong enough and about 10 grams lighter than a standard servo. 4 servos make 40 grams! If you want it high- end, you could use the 5245 BB MG DIGI.

Greetings from Austria!

And keep flying hard!