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Old 06-06-2012, 12:30 PM   #16
Capt. Roll
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Quote: Originally Posted by RappyMan
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Well - the back story is that my flying friend called the Penzoil Air-Cooled oil that I was using "crap" and said I needed to drop it and start using the full synthetic Marine oil.
I still have a small stash of the Penzoil AirCooled - just checking to see if it was "crap" or okay. There's motivation to move on to a completely different oil that is accepted as "great stuff" and not offend my friend by not using his Marine stuff.
Pennzoil Air-Cooled two cycle is a very good product, same for the Pennzoil Marine two cycle.

Oils can be formulated for specific operating requirements to provide a "best" protection for the application. In general, synthetic based lubricants are superior to mineral based lubricants. When mixed correctly both will do the job. If you consider a two cycle engine to be more of an extreme/harsh operating environment (maybe due to the heat and speed) then a synthetic may, over the long run, be a better choice.

BTW, I'd think the Shell and PZL would be similar since Shell does own the Pennzoil brand.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:15 PM   #17
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Pennzoil products are rebranded Shell products.

The Marine Oils formulated for fuel injected engines tend to be lighter viscosity than the air cooled products. However modern formulations actually use a base oil that is blend of two base oils to provide multi grade type performance ad allow cross over between air and liquid cooled engines oils. Most of the modern TCW-3 oils are blended this. Usuallu on the label it will state "Also suitable for air cooled engines" If no mention is made then errr on the side of caution and rather use a oil for air cooled engines.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:16 PM   #18
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Quote: Originally Posted by RappyMan
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Well - the back story is that my flying friend called the Penzoil Air-Cooled oil that I was using "crap" and said I needed to drop it and start using the full synthetic Marine oil.
I still have a small stash of the Penzoil AirCooled - just checking to see if it was "crap" or okay. There's motivation to move on to a completely different oil that is accepted as "great stuff" and not offend my friend by not using his Marine stuff.
Pennzoil air cooled (usually used at 30:1 or 32:1) is far from crap for our toy plane engines. In fact, it (and it's twin brother sold under the Shell name) is about the best mineral oil around for our purposes.
Pennzoil Marine is a bad move for our toy plane engines. It is designed for cooler jacketed engines and does not give the same level of protection for our purposes as the air cooled oil does.

Your flying buddy tried heading you in the wrong direction. Here are some indications as to his knowledge level.

Does he spend much time "tuning" to get them "just right" ?
Is he good at deadstick landings?
Does he buy a lot of engines then replace them with others on a regular basis?

If the answer is yes to any of those, he may not be the best advisor.

Some other good choices in oils for our planes are:
Redline Racing oil
Stihl Ultra HP
Castrol TTS 2T Racing
Mobil 1 2T


On that list, I prefer to use 40:1 mixes as the engines develop more power and get better protection - others are happily running them at 50:1
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:36 PM   #19
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I really appreciate all the help on this one - glad to hear the Penzoil air-cooled is still good. I think I might switch to the Stihl Ultra HP when it is gone. My flying buddy has a lot more experience and is generally the guy to go to on motors - something didn't seem right though after trying the Marine stuff though. Glad to get a better understanding on what is going on.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:15 AM   #20
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I second Brian Smith and aussiesteve. Been using Pennzoil 2-Cycle Air-Cooled in my rebuilt BME 111 on recommendation from BME for about 8 years. Engine still runs great. BME had said it was the oil with the least deposits they had seen on engines returned to them for service, so that's what they were recommending. Breakin at 32:1 and stay with that mixture.

Also, second the Stihl Ultra HP. Have a Stihl weed trimmer that still runs great after 26 years, although started with other Stihl 2-cycle oils. Don't recall how long on Stihl Ultra HP. Also, approximately 32 years on a Husqvarna chainsaw on same Stihl oils. Typically use at 50:1. Don't use chainsaw too often, so had to have carb on it rebuilt twice, last one about two years ago.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:31 AM   #21
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http://www.pennzoil.com/wp-content/u...c+2+cyclel.pdf

If this is the product in question then I believe it is more than good enough for the job at hand and will concur with your buddy that its suitable for use in your engine.
What you want is a high VI oil. Generally air cooled engine oils are lower VI due and lower viscosity because generally air cooled engines are used in industrial applications. Specialised apps like high performance motorcycle engine oils (2 stroke) use higher VI and slightly higher viscosity base oil.
I compared the viscosity at 100C of both Pennzoil Marine Full Synthetic 2 cycle to Shell Advance Ultra 2 (which is what I currently use in my Mintors, DLE and MVVS) and they both are 9cSt (Well 9 and 9.1 for the Pennz product).
The Pennz product has a higher VI so it's viscosity at 40C is lower than the Pennz product (and that makes it suitable for oil injection and fuel injection outboards).

Generally I agree that marine outboard oils are not completely suitable for our use but a proper answer really requires evaluation on a case by case basis.

So I don't think your buddy is wrong at all.
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:21 AM   #22
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If you are having problems with your rc engines with the oil change and you have done nothing else to cause the problem then it sure seems to me that the oil is not working for you. Marine oil per the manufacturer is blended for marine use not air use. Get the Stihl HP Ultra and be done with it. Let's not kick the dead horse.
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:44 AM   #23
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Quote: Originally Posted by Captinjohn 2
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2012 TC-W3 Registered Two-stroke-cycle Marine Oils

RL-00093G
West Marine Premium 2-Cycle Engine Oil
West Marine

RL-00182F
Neptuna 2T Racing
TOTAL Lubrifiants

RL-00193F
Total Super Horsbord
TOTAL Lubrifiants

RL-00197G
Synthe Nautic
Armorine

RL-00198F
Neptuna 2T Super Sport
TOTAL Lubrifiants

RL-00287J
Terralus Aqua Sport
Morris Lubricants

RL-00288J
Total Neptuna 2T Super Sport
TOTAL Lubrifiants

RL-00402J
Mobil Yamaha 2T
ExxonMobil Corporation

RL-00405J
Starbrite Super Premium TC-W3
Kinpak

RL-00406J
Starbrite Premium TC-W3
Kinpak

RL-00408J
ADNOC Outboard Super Engine Oil
ADNOC

RL-00409J
Federated Auto Parts Engine Oil - Marine TC-W3 2 Cycle
Warren Distribution

RL-00410J
West Marine Premium 2-Cycle TC-W3 Engine Oil
West Marine

RL-00411J
West Marine Ultra TCW3
West Marine

RL-00412J
West Marine DFI TCW3
West Marine

RL-00413J
Yamalube 2 TC-W3 - Brazil
Chevron Brasil Lubrificantes Ltda.

RL-00415J
Mystik Marine Premium 2T OBMO
CITGO

RL-00416J
Mystik JT-4 2-Cycle Premium Plus OBMO
CITGO

RL-00417J
Stroker OB 40
Tru-Blu Oil Australia Pty Ltd.

RL-00418J
West Marine Pure Oceans Premium 2-Cycle Outboard Oil
West Marine

RL-00419J
Marine Outboard Two Stroke Oil
Penrite Oil Company Pty Ltd.

RL-00420J
Caltex Super Outboard 3
Chevron International Technical Center

RL-00421J
Regatta
Petron Corporation

RL-00422K
Brad Penn Low Pour Universal 2 Stroke Engine Oil
American Refining Group

RL-00424K
G-OIL
Green Earth Technologies, Inc.

RL-00425K
Bardahl Nepton TC-W3
Bardahl Asia Pacific Pte ltd

RL-00426K
Cenex Premium Ashless Two-Cycle Engine Oil
CHS Inc.

RL-00427K
Mobil Outboard Plus
ExxonMobil Corporation

RL-00428K
Mobil Yamaha 2T
ExxonMobil Corporation

RL-00429J
Casey's Drive Professional Series 2-Cycle Outboard Engine Oil
Warren Distribution

RL-00431K
Kawasaki Jet Ski HP Watercraft 2-Stroke
Kawasaki Motors Corp., U.S.A.

RL-00436K
Castrol Outboard Super TT Nautico Plus
Lubricants UK Ltd Technology Center

RL-00438K
Repsol Nautico Outboard & Jet Ski 2T
Repsol YPF Lubricantes T Especialidades S.A.

RL-00440K
Petro-Canada Outboard Motor Oil
Petro-Canada Lubricants

RL-00442K
Mystik Ultimate High Performange Engine Oil
CITGO Petroleum Corporation

RL-00443K
Shell Advance Snowmobile Oil
Shell Oil Products US

RL-00444K
Nautilus Premium Outboard Oil
Shell Oil Products US

RL-00445K
Quaker State 2-Cycle Motor Oil
Shell Oil Products US

RL-00447K
Lucas Land & Sea
Lucas Oil Products, Inc.

RL-00453L
SuperSyn Outboard 2-Cycle Marine Oil
Smitty's Supply Inc.

RL-00454L
Farm Oyl Hi-Performance 2 Cycle
CHS Inc.

RL-00456L
Castrol Super Outboard
Lubricants UK Ltd Technology Center

RL-00459L
Castrol Super Outboard Plus
Lubricants UK Ltd Technology Center

RL-00460L
Castrol Super Outboard Plus
Lubricants UK Ltd. Technology Center

RL-00462L
Spectrol 2-Cycle TC-W3 Motor Oil
Delfin Group USA, LLC

RL-00463L
Ultimate 2-Cycle TC-W3 Motor Oil
Delfin Group USA, LLC

RL-03053
Lubrimatic
Lubrimatic Products

RL-10081G
Castrol Super Outboard Plus
Lubricants UK Ltd. Technology Center

RL-10140
Avia Outboard
Thevenin & Decrot Lubrifiants

RL-10541D
Yacco Outboard 100 2T
Yacco - R&D C.T.L.

RL-11610L
Marine 2-Stroke Engine Oil
Bel-Ray Co., Inc.

RL-20070L
Castrol Outboard Super Plus 2-stroke
Lubricants UK Ltd. Technology Center

RL-20084B
Pennzoil Marine 100% Synthetic Outboard 2-Cycle Oil
Shell Oil Products US

RL-20097F
Neptuna 2T Bio Jet
TOTAL Lubrifiants

RL-20111
National TC-W3
Pinnacle Oil, Inc.

RL-24011
Fire Star
Pinnacle Oil, Inc.

RL-26638G
76 Unimix 2-Cycle Oil
ConocoPhillips

RL-26639G
Conoco XHP 2-Cycle Engine Oil
ConocoPhillips

RL-26640G
Kendall GT-1 2-Cycle Lubricant
ConocoPhillips

RL-26641G
Phillips 66 Injex 2-Cycle TC-W3 Oil
ConocoPhillips

RL-27002G
Pennzoil Outdoor Multipurpose
Shell Oil Products US

RL-27003G
Pennzoil Marine Premium Plus
Shell Oil Products US

RL-27004G
Pennzoil Marine XLF
Shell Oil Products US

RL-27005G
Shell Nautilus Outboard
Shell Oil Products US

RL-27006G
Wal Mart Super Tech Outboard
Shell Oil Products US

RL-27038F
Cabela's Signature Series Semi-Synthetic Oil
Lubrication Technologies, Inc.

RL-27050H
Ace 2-Cycle Outboard Engine Oil
Olympic Oil Limited

RL-27051H
Master Mechanic 2-Cycle Outboard Engine Oil
Olympic Oil Limited

RL-29018F
Ravenol Outboardoel 2T Teilsynth
Ravensberger SchmierstoffvertriebGmbH

RL-29019G
Ravenol Watercraft Fullsynth 2-Takt
Ravensberger SchmierstoffvertriebGmbH

RL-29023L
Castrol Super Outboard Plus
Lubricants UK Ltd. Technology Center

RL-29060L
Ultra Superstream OBMO
NP House

RL-29109E
Texaco Outboard TC-W3
Chevron Brasil Lubrificantes Ltda.

RL-29123F
Pace Mariner 2 Stroke OMBO
NP House

RL-29901H
Ravenol Watercraft Mineral 2-Takt
Ravensberger SchmierstoffvertriebGmbH

RL-30010H
Ravenol Watercraft Teilsynth 2-Takt
Ravensberger SchmierstoffvertriebGmbH

RL-30064B
Super 2T
Gonhermex S.A. de C.V.

RL-30065B
Lubra 2T TC-W3
Lubricantes de America SA de CV

RL-30066L
Castrol Super Outboard
Lubricants UK Ltd. Technology Center

RL-30067L
Peak Performance 2 Cycle Engine Oil
Smitty's Supply, Inc.

RL-30068L
Raloy Dos Tiempos TCW-3 (Outboard 2T)
Raloy Lubricantes, S.A. de C.V.

RL-30070L
Pride Nautical Premium TC-W3
Smitty's Supply, Inc.

RL-30073L
Gulfpride 2-Cycle Engine Oil
Nu Tier Brands / Gulf Lubricants

RL-30074M
TRLI HERA Outboard TCW-3 2T Engine Oil
Trli Enterprise Company Ltd.

RL-30097E
Bardahl Nautico Super BIA TC-W3
Bardahl de Mexico S.A. DE C.V.

RL-30103K
Lubrax Nautica Gasolina 2T / Petrobras
Petrobras

RL-31350
"Super S" Premium Outboard Oil
Smitty's Supply, Inc.

RL-31352
SureGuard
Smitty's Supply Inc.

RL-31353K
Crown Outboard
Smitty's Supply, Inc.

RL-32034E
MG Jayaco 2-Cycle and Outboard TC-W3
Importadora La Plaza

RL-32257
Unil Opal Outboard TCW3
UNIL OPAL SAS

RL-33201M
Biomarine Outboard Two Stroke
Penrite Oil Company Pty Ltd.

RL-34201E
Phillips 66 Synjex 2-Cycle Motor Oil
ConocoPhillips

RL-40462F
Irving 2 Cycle +
Coastal Blending & Packaging

RL-40463F
Carquest 2 Cycle Engine Oil
Coastal Blending & Packaging

RL-51030
Q8 Outboard
Kuwait Petroleum Research

RL-56623
MOTUL Outboard 2T
MOTUL

RL-56669E
Valvoline Super Outboard 2T
Ashland Nederland

RL-56670E
Mobil Outboard Plus
ExxonMobil Corporation

RL-59702G
Valvoline Synpower Outboard 2T
Ashland Nederland

RL-60104F
Itasca Universal 2 Cycle Outboard Engine Oil
Warren Oil Company, Inc.

RL-60560
SUPRA 3
Eduardono S.A.

RL-70172F
Coastal TC-W3
Warren Oil Company, Inc.

RL-70175L
CARQUEST 2-Cycle Engine Oil TC-W3
Warren Oil Company, Inc.

RL-80086G
AP Lube 2-T OB TC-W3
AP Oil International Limited

RL-80088G
Power Marine TCWIII
EMARAT

RL-80115D
Protec 2T Super Outboard Oil
ENOC International

RL-81182
Castrol Super Outboard
Lubricants UK Ltd. Technology Center

RL-82002K
NAUTIC PLUS
Commercial Roshfrans, S.A. de C.V.

RL-82008K
GULF GREEN 3000
Gulf Oil International

RL-90000G
Ravenol Outboardoel 2T Mineral
Ravensberger SchmierstoffvertriebGmbH

RL-90001G
Ravenol Outboardoel 2T Fullsynth
Ravensberger SchmierstoffvertriebGmbH

RL-90044D
Yacco Outboard 1000 2T
Yacco - R&D C.T.L.

RL-90045F
Nautimar Biosynthetic
Petronas Lubricants International

RL-90050L
Marine Biodegradable 2-Stroke Engine Oil
Bel-Ray Co., Inc.

RL-90550D
Galp Oceanus Bio
Petrogal

RL-91506H
NYCOLUBE 210
NYCO

RL-92002B
Gulf Pride 3000
Gulf Oil International

RL-92007J
West Marine DFI Synthetic Blend Outboard Oil TC-W3
West Marine

RL-92010J
Resolute 2-Cycle TC-W3 (for Fleet Wholesale Supply Company)
Fleet Wholesale Supply Company

RL-92018J
Castrol Outboard Biolube 100
Lubricants UK Ltd. Technology Center

RL-92019J
Supergard Marine Plus
CITGO

RL-92101C
Nissan Marine Premium Outboard Motor Oil
Tohatsu America Corp.

RL-92201
Galp Oceanus
Petrogal

RL-92333D
Chevron 2-Cycle Oil TC-W3
Chevron Global Lubricants

RL-92334D
Havoline Two-Cycle Engine Oil TC-W3
Chevron Global Lubricants

RL-92340L
Castrol Outboard 2T
Lubricants UK Ltd. Technology Center

RL-92402B
Rock Oil MP3 Sports
Rock Oil Company

RL-92804H
Suzuki Outboard Oil 2-Stroke
Lubricants UK Ltd. Technology Center

RL-92805
JET SPEED 2T
Buscher AG Langenthal-Motorex

RL-93000J
West Marine Ultra High Performance/Ultra Synthetic Blend TCW3 2-Cycle Outboard Oil
West Marine

RL-93002J
Caltex Super Outboard 3
Chevron International Technical Center

RL-93015J
MAG 1
Warren Distribution

RL-93016J
Super Tech
Warren Distribution

RL-93018J
MFA Oil
Warren Distribution

RL-93021J
Pure Guard TC-W3
Omni Specialty

RL-93022J
Master Pro TC-W3
Omni Specialty

RL-93030J
2T Plus (Advanced)
Arab Investments Ltd.

RL-93101
Klotz TC-W3
Klotz Synthetic Lubricants

RL-93302K
INA Outboard Plus
Maziva-Zagreb Ltd.

RL-93340
OCEAN FS 2T BIO
Buscher AG Langenthal-Motorex

RL-93399K
MOTUL Outboard Synth 2T
MOTUL

RL-93938K
MOTUL Outboard Tech 2T
MOTUL

RL-94102B
Aqua Max - 2
Morris Lubricants

RL-95102C
Tohatsu Premium Outboard Oil
Tohatsu America Corp.

RL-99019J
CEPSA Fuera Borda 2T
CEPSA Lubricantes

RL-99031M
CAM2 Marine 2-Cycle Engine Oil TC-W3
CAM2 International, LLC

RL-99050M
Syngard TC-W3 Engine Oil
Cross Oil Refining & Marketing, Inc.

RL-99293J
Peak Performance 2 Cycle Engine Oil
Old World Industries

RL-99301K
CASTROL BIOLUBE 2T
Lubricants UK Ltd. Technology Center

RL-99302K
CASTROL OUTBOARD SUPER TT NAUTICO PLUS
Lubricants UK Ltd. Technology Center

RL-99309K
Yamalube 2M
Yamaha Motor Corporation, U.S.A.

RL-99333K
VENOCO TC-W3
Lubricantes Venoco International, C.A.

RL-99402K
MOBIL OUTBOARD PLUS
ExxonMobil Corporation

RL-99403K
Mobil Outboard Plus
ExxonMobil Corporation


The oils listed in bold are oils I know are multi functional i.e they are used inair cooled as well as liquid cooled engines.
The product subject to this thread I'm not 100% certain of but its pretty similar to the Shell Advance range of motorcyle oils.
The fact it is High VI and high Flash, expressly formulated for high performanc engines is a pretty good clue that its likely also multifunctional and labelled different when marketed to different end users.
Its not as black and white as "use this and be done with it."
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:22 PM   #24
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Figured I would jump in here with a different perspective.

I fly 2 gasser helicopters that run consistently in the 12500-14000 rpm range and don't get even close to the amount of cooling and airflow that air engines do.

I have been running pennzoil marine (this EXACT oil in question by the OP) for over 2 years. Both my engines are $500+ modified engines by TRM (Toxic Racing) and BH (BH Hanson). Both oils have been tested and BH Hanson even recommends it as an option.

The Oil was originally tested and verified to work exceptionally well by Chris Bergen of Bergen RC Helicopters and has been used and is currently being used by a very large segment of the Gasser RC Heli Community. You can do a search at Helifreak and Runryder.com and see that this oil has undergone some serous discussion and scrutiny.

I am currently running it in my DLE35RA and have had the engine apart and it looks wonderful on the inside...just like the rest of my engines.

The ONLY complaint I have ever had is that it does build up a small amount of carbon. BUT, I have yet to find an oil that doesn't. There are many variables to that and, per Al at TRM, a small heart shaped carbon pattern on the top of the piston is normal.

In summary, using this oil is perfectly fine. It runs exceptionally well and WILL NOT damage your engine. If you are concerned, as others have stated, there are tons of oils out there to choose from and at the end of the day, if it makes you feel better, go with something else. BUT.....you can run it and your engine will be perfectly fine.

Anyone who states anything negative about it is simply misinformed or offering pure opinions. We all have opinions, but my statements and results are based on facts collected and experienced by myself and experts in the RC engine industry...not weekend worriers with a keyboard and a mouse.

To answer the OP specifically: PENZOIL Marine full synthetic is GOOD
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:33 PM   #25
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As is Super Tech two stroke from Wal Mart...anyone can compare the MSDS stats...
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:59 PM   #26
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Rototerrier, any pics of the Heli's ? Sounds intersting. You mentioned less cooling and high rpms , what size engines are they and what kind of cylinder temps are you seeing?
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:56 PM   #27
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I don't have anything recent.

Here was a build thread for one of them a couple years ago.

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=197096

They are much different now.

One engine is a TRM 270 TT and the Other is a Hanson 29 3D Max which is a 29.5
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:15 PM   #28
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Both of which are modified Zenoah engines. 14,000 + rpm....
Otherwise known as underpowered overweight boat anchors by the "experts" on the internet....
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:22 PM   #29
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Nice flight Rototerrier. I've seen glow and turbine Heli's in person but never gas, pretty cool. I did notice that the engine in your build thread has a flywheel with cooling fins, are they all like that? Seems like they would need to be or they would overheat.
Way back when I read an extensive test article done by someone using Rotax Engines in Ultralights the marine oil showed heavy carbon deposits while the air cooled penzoil did not. it may be different for you with the higher rpms and lighter engine loading? What ratio do you run?
I'm not saying you can't use the marine oil, but the Penzoil air cooled, Redline and Stihl HP Ultra synthetics have a proven track record in our giant scale planes so I'll personally stick with and recommend those.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:33 PM   #30
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Most oils are fine if you use enough of it. The less used the better it needs to be. The less cooling you have the more you need to use.
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