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Old 06-12-2012, 03:34 PM   #1
williamvanetten
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Default DLE-20 idle

first gas engine. on test stand starts and runs with no issues. idles well at 1700. only problem is when dropping throttle back to idle after high RPM it will settle at about 3300 RPM and stay for 5-20 seconds and then finally drop down to 1700 idle speed. checked servo, linkages, fuel lines etc. but??? anyone have the same problem, hate to take the plane off the ground if i can't count on a reliable idle speed. thanks
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:12 PM   #2
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it isnt broke in yet ! give that engine some time aqnd swap out the sparkplug asap. sounds to be a little rich on top end but thats ok , dont try to get it perfect on the ground. get her airborn and burn a few gallons while making very slight adjustments. after break-in change the plug again .
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:52 PM   #3
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The RCEXL electronic ignition that comes with the DLE-20 (identified as a #4) has a "unique" timing curve. Rather than advancing as the RPM's increase at about 2,200 RPM it makes a step - rather than a typical curve.

It isn't a real problem once you are aware of it. As airboss recommends, keep using it and make sure you swap the stock plug for a NGK CM-6 (or equivalent).

One thing you don't mention is how fast the RPM's drop once they start dropping.

A hot engine another possibility for the fast idle. You might see if it is worse after running it hard verses just putting around. If this is the case check your needles. You may need to richen the high end.

If it is the ignition system that is causing the fast idle the RPMs will drop very quickly once they drop. If this is the case try richening the Low needle a little (1/8 - 1/16 of a turn). Do this a time or two until the engine drops down to its lower idle sooner. My DLE-20 will idle on the high side for a couple seconds and then drop down. I could try richening it a smidge someday but it does not cause me any problems.

The real gas 2-stroke gurus pronounce the DLE-20 ignition system as just fine once you get it broke in and the needles properly adjusted.

Paul
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:22 PM   #4
Brian Smith
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Mine does exactly the same thing. I just learned to live with it. Fellows in the know tell me it is in the ignition box. A new Rex-el/RC-xel.. (Not sure of sp). box will cure it or the box from a DLE 30 will do the trick. Mine has about 2 gal of gas thru it now and it just starts and runs like a top, so, as I said I live with it. Brian

Quote: Originally Posted by williamvanetten
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first gas engine. on test stand starts and runs with no issues. idles well at 1700. only problem is when dropping throttle back to idle after high RPM it will settle at about 3300 RPM and stay for 5-20 seconds and then finally drop down to 1700 idle speed. checked servo, linkages, fuel lines etc. but??? anyone have the same problem, hate to take the plane off the ground if i can't count on a reliable idle speed. thanks

Last edited by Brian Smith; 06-12-2012 at 05:25 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:29 PM   #5
williamvanetten
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thanks for the advice. i have only run about 12 ounces thru it so i'll continue breaking it in. haven't touched the high or low screws yet. when it drops from 3300 to idle speed it's almost instantaneous. i'll put in the NGK CM-6 plug and run it for a while while on the plane. thanks again, Bill
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:57 PM   #6
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You need to tune it also. You are probably rich up top and the engine is still burning off that fuel as it comes down to idle Tune the high needle for peak rpm first.Once you get that tune the low for good transition and it will take a few gallons to break in.
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:20 PM   #7
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Yep, same deal here with my DLE 20 for awhile. Dont sweat it, its nothing out of the usual..
Although the DLE CM-6 that came with mine actually ran great, I couldnt really notice any difference between it and the NGK plugs. And yes, I have ran the motor with both, even switched the DLE plug back in at one point from an NGK just for kicks.. and really no difference. Who knows...

It seemed to go away (the high idle from full, issue) more and more just from proper tuning, and running the motor. Id guess after the first gallon it was really operating as consistant as I could ask of it

Tune it, and just fly the thing

Keep an eye on the throttle butterfly plate over time, inside the carb. Mine came loose, and read others that have as well.. just a tip. If it never go's away, your reeds might just not be seating well enough. its nothin serious, easy fix.. so keep that in mind.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:23 PM   #8
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The ignition thing noted above just makes the thing pickier on it's needle settings, that's all. The high idle hang problem is usually pointing at a lean condition.They like to be run rich on the LS, and they won't stall unexpectedly as easily if you'll do that.

And geez, if you're going to replace the ignition module, don't buy the one for the DLE 30 (#3). It's got the same issue.... get the one for a DLE 55, or anything else running a CM-6 plug. They'll all plug right in and work fine....
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:40 PM   #9
Brian Smith
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Well I'm glad to know that about the 30 box #3. A chap on RCU stated that the 30 box worked perfect and got rid of the high slow down idle of the DLE 20. Brian


And geez, if you're going to replace the ignition module, don't buy the one for the DLE 30 (#3). It's got the same issue.... get the one for a DLE 55, or anything else running a CM-6 plug. They'll all plug right in and work fine....[/QUOTE]
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:22 AM   #10
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I ran a couple of gallons through mine, tried new ignition, cleaned, and ran my low end on the rich side. Would kill on landing approach to slow down. When we took my Syssa ignition kill out of the loop, and ran a 4.8v straight to the ignition it cured the problem. I also found that my reeds were not seated properly, and had a gap. The plastic housing the reeds sat on still had the factory mold lines on them, sanded lines off, reeds seated. That made a huge differance. I sold the DLE and bought the Mintor.
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Old 06-17-2012, 02:28 PM   #11
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Ant. I have 2nd engine-same problem as 1st. can you e-mail me ?
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:20 PM   #12
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Hey guys, just bumping this thread for a little advice.............my new DLE 20 (on Hangar 9 P-47 .60 size) has (had) the little step down anomaly mentioned above with regard to returning to idle. Didn't sweat it as it had no bearing on how the engine performed and I remembered reading this thread before the build.

I only have about four tanks a fuel total through the engine (30:1 Stihl HP Ultra) and had been running with the needles at factory setting (I'm at Sea Level FLA). The engine started well by hand propping, nice idle, transition was decent and reliable (a bit of stumbling) but had a 'miss' all through the throttle curve from about 1/3 throttle upward. I figured it was a little rich out-of-box and decided to just let it be for the first few tanks.

Today I went about the procedure of tuning the needles by the conventional wisdom(s) of Jody, Ralph others that are in alignment with the afore mentioned two members.

I'm running an Xoar 16X6 prop for no other reason than it was in the middle of the recommended prop range of 14X10-17X6.

To my amazement my tach was reading 9250rpm at full throttle? Whoa. That seemed high considering what I had read. I leaned for peak and then further to the rpm loss, rolled the needle back rich to the rpm loss on the rich side and then advanced to the ever-so-slightly-to-rich side of the median. There I was getting a bit better than 9375rpm? Whoa.

From idle the motor stumbled a bit on advance so I leaned the low needle a bit. It then transitioned very, very well.

I ran all up and down the throttle curve and the 'miss' is still there although less prominent at the last 1/3 toward WOT, and now the engine 'surges' up and down at idle by approx 100rpm. I tried high and low idle trim and it just 'hunts'.

I tried running the tuning procedure two more times and the results were the same. Then adjusting the Low needle rich and lean at idle. Nada. I pulled the plug, an NGK CM-6, and it was a gray to tan color and clean of any deposits. I widened the plug gap ever so slightly (had no feeler gauges) and checked for air bubbles coming to the carb through the fuel line. All seemed well there and I flew the plane. Just still 'misses' especially in mid-range and surges at idle.

I suppose the only thing 'immediate' I can try is another plug? Kinda at a loss..........this is my second gas engine after a Mintor horror show.........

Thanks in advance,

Doug
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:39 PM   #13
vmceachern
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Have you dressed the reed block? All the DLE's must get this done or it will do as your saying.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:29 PM   #14
FoamieAirfarce
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Thanks for the reply. Is there a specific thread with regard?

I did a 'search' and there is a lot of sporadic info with regard. Are the reeds not lying flat on the block? Is that the problem? Air bleed at the block?

<edit> Is this the procedure by general consensus?

Gas Engine Reed Block Mod.

"I found that on the rear intake's there is a Black plastic or Aluminum reed block between engine & carb. It has a flange on it for mounting to flat carb & engine surface and reed part is triangular shaped. The reed block surfaces are not flat and reeds in some cases don't lay perfectly flat against block. The gasket surfaces often times are not flat either and need to be sanded down to flatten. In some reed blocks there are 2 screws that go thru a steel plate that holds reed to surface. On other reed blocks the screws just go through holes in reeds. Remove screws and reeds from block, then file or hone metal plates if supplied flat as 1 side will have burrs from having been punched out and holed not drilled. Next tape down 320 grit sandpaper to edge of really flat surface, table top, edge of thick piece of glass, etc. Because of the lip on plastic block, let that part hang over edge and pull plastic or Aluminum block across paper to flatten. Repeat on other surface until the surface is flat. It won't take much so no need to get carried away. Next deburr the 4 screw holes as screws tend to pull plastic up in screw holes. Remount screws thru plate & reed or just reeds. Make sure reed is totally flat, if not remove screws again and turn reed over and reinstall screws. Screws will strip easily so if you have lock tite you can put a tiny bit on screws to secure & tighten gently. What this affects is idle, engine will be hard starting as if 1 or both reeds are open ever so slightly, fuel won't be drawn up to carb and stay there. If reeds are open it never will pull a vacuum to draw fuel and hold fuel at carb.

Thanks

Frank Bowman"

Last edited by FoamieAirfarce; 12-07-2012 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:22 PM   #15
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Quote: Originally Posted by FoamieAirfarce
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Thanks for the reply. Is there a specific thread with regard?

I did a 'search' and there is a lot of sporadic info with regard. Are the reeds not lying flat on the block? Is that the problem? Air bleed at the block?

<edit> Is this the procedure by general consensus?

Gas Engine Reed Block Mod.

"I found that on the rear intake's there is a Black plastic or Aluminum reed block between engine & carb. It has a flange on it for mounting to flat carb & engine surface and reed part is triangular shaped. The reed block surfaces are not flat and reeds in some cases don't lay perfectly flat against block. The gasket surfaces often times are not flat either and need to be sanded down to flatten. In some reed blocks there are 2 screws that go thru a steel plate that holds reed to surface. On other reed blocks the screws just go through holes in reeds. Remove screws and reeds from block, then file or hone metal plates if supplied flat as 1 side will have burrs from having been punched out and holed not drilled. Next tape down 320 grit sandpaper to edge of really flat surface, table top, edge of thick piece of glass, etc. Because of the lip on plastic block, let that part hang over edge and pull plastic or Aluminum block across paper to flatten. Repeat on other surface until the surface is flat. It won't take much so no need to get carried away. Next deburr the 4 screw holes as screws tend to pull plastic up in screw holes. Remount screws thru plate & reed or just reeds. Make sure reed is totally flat, if not remove screws again and turn reed over and reinstall screws. Screws will strip easily so if you have lock tite you can put a tiny bit on screws to secure & tighten gently. What this affects is idle, engine will be hard starting as if 1 or both reeds are open ever so slightly, fuel won't be drawn up to carb and stay there. If reeds are open it never will pull a vacuum to draw fuel and hold fuel at carb.

Thanks

Frank Bowman"
Thats it in a nuttshell, Franks a great guy! Just be careful not to dig in to the lower flange sealing surface,don't let the sandpaper roll over the edge of the glass or it will. Keep sanding till you have a flat uniform surface all the way down to the screws that hold the reed assy and reassemble. If you have been running it awhile it may have a frayed edge on a reed. You will have to purchase a new reed cage,reeds aren't available separate but its not much, call Valley View RC they have them. You will be amazed how well it will tune when done!

Good luck!
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