35% dalton & zdz80 super

[Flyinrazrback]

I ran the PT 26x10 and Mejzlik 26x10 on my 3W 80. Both props worked great, but the PT spooled up a lot faster (its about 3oz lighter than the mejzlik), pulled harder, better low speed handling, and more quiet. My friend now runs both of those props on his zdz super 80, and prefers the PT 26x10. The Vess 26A is also an awesome prop, I have a couple of the prototypes and they do work great. You can run engine inverted with the wrap around header, or if you make your own wrap around header, or you could tilt the engine as well to run the full pipe. The Dalton is a very big plane, and if you are going to use the 80, you are going to want to use the AMT full pipe or the KS 1080. I dont think you would be happy with just the performance of the can instead of a full pipe.

[scoubidou]

Are you running a tuned pipe and if so which one? Will I have to mount the motor at an angle to get the pipe to run down the centerline of the fuse or is there a wrap around header available? What is the differnece between the pt and mejzlik? I have lots of questions, dont I?

No i don't use a tuned pipe in my 33% WH Extra 260 but KS-95 canister and my engine is mounted at 8 o'clock with 10 inches header. You can make your own header from KS parts (http://www.krumscheid-metallwaren.de/). You just need a propane torch, silver rods, elbows and 28mm straight tube to do a header or, you can buy a complete header. DA have KS parts/pipes/cans in stock.

I have posted many pics in another forum here:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3700528/tm.htm

I agree with Flyinrazback and go with a tuned pipe on a 35% plane or 25-26 lbs plane. Better throttle response, more power and lower temp engine with the tuned pipe.

Scou.

[yoyosmuggler]

I have been told that the midrange and throttle response will sufer a bit with a tuned pipe but the top end will be good. Is this the best option for IMAC style flying? I only use full power on up lines and really dont want the top end to be to touchy. Just throwing this out there for to see what you guys think.

[Flyinrazrback]

The key to keeping a pretty good midrange with pipes is to not overprop the engine. With the pipe, the engine really likes lots of rpms, so stick with a mejzlik 26x10/PT 26x10, or possibly the zm 26x12. Loading down the engine with a big prop on a full pipe is not a good idea, as you lose the advantage the pipe gives you. Keep the plane light and simple, and the 80 on the pipe will do it justice. The 80 on pipe does have the power of the DA, probably a bit better. DickH can give you some good starting props on pipes, tuning length, etc, as he has run that setup I believe.

[scoubidou]

Here is a nice graph from Ks to tune your pipe:


I like to use Pe Reivers calculator to see the thrust difference between different props:

-DA-100 with Mejzlick can turn 28x10 at 6300 RPM. It gives 54.7 lbs of thrust 96 km/h

-ZDZ-80 RVJ with Mejzlick 26x10 at 7200 RPM gives 55.8 lbs of thrust, 109.7 km/h but probably 1 to 2 pounds lighter than DA-100 on canisters and 1/2 cost.
So, more power, better thrust/weight ratio and lower wing loading for the ZDZ pipe combo.

Note: Those numbers are for estimation only.

[yoyosmuggler]

What about the jmb t-70 tuned silencer with wrap around header? It will probably not have the top end power of the pipe but it will be quiet and have good throttle response. What about this combo? Sounds like you guys think the pipe will be best but I'm just exploring all options.

[Flyinrazrback]

DickH has tested the new JMB T tuned silencers, he did not like them as much as the regular JMBs. You will not have a big issue with the full pipe. If all you wanted to do is hover, I wouldnt recommend a pipe, but if you mainly fly imac, pipes are a great choice, and you can still 3d with them too.

[yoyosmuggler]

O.K., you have me convinced on the tuned pipe. I will get the amt-80 with wrap around header. I guess I will need to purchase this when the build begins so I can plan ahead for the pipe location. Here is a another of topic question...I noticed a slightly lean condition when inverted with my current setup. I'm sure it has something to do with changing pressure inside the cowl. The carb has a fitting on the vent hole which will allow me to run a piece of tubing to another part of the plane to try and get equal pressure no matter what the orientation of the plane is. My question is where do I run the tubing? Back further into the fuse or run it outside of the airplane into the air outside?

[romanrc]

I have the old 80 zdz and the new super 80, what muffler is the best, the noice is not a problem in my field

[yoyosmuggler]

Are you looking for an in cowl muffler? If so I think the supersonic is the best. That is what I'm running on mine in a 330S h9 extra. The outlet has a curved geometry which allows the exhaust to flow better than the bisson. I had the old zdz 80 also on a bisson muffler and had to cut about a half inch off of the exhaust stack to get less restriction, it added about 200 rpm. The supersonic is ready to go right out of the box. I guess it depends on what airplane you have and what your looking for. The supersonic fits the bill for my extra because its not really set up for tuned pipe or canisters and it will have plenty of power for a 33% plane. I am going with a tuned pipe on my 35% dalton 260.

[yoyosmuggler]

	Quote: Originally Posted by SleepyC
	MAN.... I asked this question and 9689 posts later I still had no answer. Good luck.. I think it will rock. I got schmoozed the other way and got a DA 100 for my Dalton.. so I am REALLY interested to see if this motor rocks... cause if it does.. I'll have about 25 people to be mad at! Good luck!

Sleepy, I got three words for ya...sell the DA! The super 80 is the real deal. I have a 25 lb h9 330s and this motor pulls this thing around like its on a walk in the park. I have no doubt after tonight that I made the right call on the dalton/zdz combo. I'm running a supersonic muffler right now and can only imagine the power this thing will have on a tuned pipe. I'm really pumped and cant wait to start the build as soon as the kit gets here. The ZDZ R.O.C.K.S.

[scoubidou]

Any update on your project YOYo? What pipe and did you order does it balance?

[yoyosmuggler]

The dalton is just about ready for covering, needs final sanding. I ended up with the amt 105 tuned pipe and 13" wrap around header. Going to use a mejzlik 27-10. I haven't tried the balance yet or have a weight. Here is a fairly recent pic, since this pic I have added lightening cutouts in the elev & rudder. The amt pipe is really long so my tunnel I built goes all the way back to the beginning of the turtle deck. I can get some pics if you would like to see how it ended up.

[scoubidou]

Thanks for the update Yoyo!
Yes i would apreciate if you could post some pics of the pipe tunnel, insite the fuse. I have 2 super ZDZ80 and this 35% could be a good project, if it can be built under 25 lbs.

[yoyosmuggler]

Here are some pics of the tunnel I built. I used 1/4" square balsa for the frame and used 1/16 balsa for the sides and top. Even with the extra weight of the tunnel the airframe totally complete minus the motor only came in at just over 19 lbs.. That includes everyting...prop batteries all radio gear..everthing except motor itself. I expect AUW to be in the 25 lb range. I think its going to rock