H9 33% Edge and 100cc Engine?

[Yakov]

I have a H9 33% Edge 540 that I have been flying all year on a normal ZDZ 80.

Well the engine was baffed, needed new bearings and had a ridge in the cylinder wall up near TDC that the piston ring was catching on momentarily. I had to go down to a MSC 24-10 prop just to get 6200 rpm out of it.. I was going back and forth whether to have it rebuilt or just get a new engine when a fellow club member offered to buy it as is.

I picked up a used DA 100 in anticipation of selling the Edge and moving up to 35% but have since decided I might just keep the Edge.

So now I have an 80cc airframe and a 100cc engine. Can I safely use this 100cc engine in this airplane. The engine is about 2 Lbs heavier then the ZDZ and after mounting it in the Edge I had to move all three of my battery packs back 1 foot to just behind the cockpit but I did ballance it without adding any additional weight. I realize that the wingloading will have gone up but how much difference could it have really made on a 1760 sq.in. model.

Has anyone flown this combo? Input would be appreciated as I would like to resolve this ASAP.

Thanx in advance for your help.

[ben_beyer]

A lot of people fly this combo and I even thought about doing one. There's a review with this plane and engine on RCUniverse.com. The thing to remember is to practice throttle management.

[Boulder]

Well, if nothing else changes with the weight, meaning all you added was 2 lbs., you just added 2.61 oz/sq.ft. of wing loading. It shouldn't make a "ton" of difference, but you will probably have to fly the plane a "touch" faster and keep a little power on your landings. You will notice it...

[yoyosmuggler]

If you hadn't already got the DA I would try the zdz super 80. I have the h9 extra with the super and it has tons of power and the weight differnce from the super 80 to the older 80 is hardly none, you wouldn't have had to move anything. I have less than 2 gal. thru mine and it runs 6400 R.P.M. with a 26-10 prop. Proper baffling is required with the singles to get good cooling. I blocked off the front of the cowl to force the air to go around the cooling fins. If you decide to get the super 80 there is a thread here that shows all this stuff. If you keep the DA....disregard this post. BTW I'm bulding a 35% Dalton 260 and I'm going to put the super 80 in it.

[Yakov]

	Quote: Originally Posted by ben_beyer
	A lot of people fly this combo and I even thought about doing one. There's a review with this plane and engine on RCUniverse.com. The thing to remember is to practice throttle management.

OK I found it. Thanx for the info. I am prety good a throttle management now so don't forsee any problems. Sure as heck won't have any problems with up-lines. Might have to get a little longer gear though, not much prop clearence on a 27-10... and I even have the TNT AL gear.

Will just have to watch the snap-rolls. Moving up from Basaic to Sportsman in IMAC next year.

Now I have to remount all the stuff I took out when I was going to sell it!

[dick hanson]

I am flying the EDGE with SUPER 80 on full pipe (not a canister) turning 27x10 Mejzlic at 6500 static/7000 unloaded (pipe controls top rpm)
I also made my own longer gear - the thing is an absolute blast to fly and the only way you could get in trouble is to not reduce power for level or down hill maneuvers -or do stupid stuff-- slam bang hit the wall/ slam bang crap at speed.
Otherwise, the model is a delight - wind is NO problem, just select path and power to suit.
Iit unloads going up rolling vertical -just lots o fun.
Also I clipped wings 4" per side and made the small tip panels from 1/8" lit ply
th plane is in my book much more agile than the stostok airframe I had last year
rotations faster - snaps more "on line etc.. knife edge is extremely good .and les couple up in climbing or diving thru knife edge in loops - strange -I did not think they would help that much.

[dick hanson]

- watch the power on silly stuf -it is far stronger than any of the 100 setups we have seen in H9 models
here are a few pics--the cowl was early setup cowl from in cowl muffler

[Flyinrazrback]

Obviously Dick hasnt tried a 3W 106 in a H9 33% , sorry, had to say it! On another note, after having a H933% with one of the 100s (3W 106) it had monster power even 25lbs, but no doubt they fly better being 2lbs lighter with an 80 or BME 110. All that extra power from the 100s was not needed, but fun to play with. I had another one with a BME 110, and it was 21lbs and change, now that was fun.

[dick hanson]

How much harder did your 106 3W turn that prop?- I have not tried one here but the lone 106 here seems to run very well but won't turn the 27x10 Mejzlic as well as my 80.
what am I missing out on ?.

[Flyinrazrback]

That particular 106 (about 30 gallons plus) was turning a Prince P-Tip 28x10 (a lot more load than a mejzlik or menz) at 6500-6600. Fuchs freestyle 28x10 around 6800. My 106 powered H9 Sukhoi would flat out leave my BME 110 powered H9 Edge punching out of a hover, and it was 2+ lbs heavier. I think the guy there with the 106 needs to figure out how to run it or tune it. It should be turning a mej 27x10 at least 6500-6700 on stock mufflers. I would wager I have had as many 106s as you have had 80s lol. I am not knockning the super 80, its an awesome engine. However the ones I have seen and run on stock mufflers, do not hold up to the DA or 3Ws on stock mufflers, as it shouldnt giving up 20-26cc. Add pipes and the super 80 is a monster, but add pipes to my 106 and now you are talking 6700 on a Mejzlik 29x10. Pipes work well on both setups.

[Yakov]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyinrazrback
	after having a H933% with one of the 100s (3W 106) it had monster power even 25lbs, but no doubt they fly better being 2lbs lighter with an 80 or BME 110.

How so? I know some of my fellow IMACers are always toutting the "lighter flys better" rederick but is that ALWAYS true? What about in a strong wind? Won't a lighter airframe get tossed around more? How do you mean they fly better? My settup was 24 lbs with the ZDZ 80. With the 100 I am gessing close to 27 lbs.

[Flyinrazrback]

Yakov, lighter flys better in this instance. Why? Because the H9 planes only have 1750-1800 inches of wing area, where a true 35% will have 1900-2000 inches of wing area. It its not the total weight of the plane, but the wingloading. Yes you will have more power with the 100, but adding 2lbs is a big deal to me on this size plane. Keep the 80 in the edge and do some lightning mods like carbon gear, wingtube, etc. Stuff the DA in a true 35% plane, thats what I would do if it was my decision.

[dick hanson]

We will try the 106 my friend has , with the 27x10 -but here at 4350 ft - I don't expect to see 6500 - mabe - but based on how it turns the 26x10's doubtful- it has in cowl muffs _I don't know which ones .
anyway I was surprised at how well the 80 responded to really long pipe tuning.
The long pipe really seems to lock the rpms into an envelope of rpm - no unlimied rpm in a dive -as will an open in cowl muffler - On the 80 the revs go nuts on the in cowl but - the low speed torque was nowhere what the tuned setup produced . Still at 23 .25 lbs and now 90 squares sawed off the wings - this thing is a hoot.
If I can swing the deal -I will stuf the 80 pipe n all into a 35% YAK (yet another friggen YAK) and see how it fares
BTW the DA100 here -on in cowl muffler is a nice setup but rpms are NOT close to 6500 on 27x10 . On tuned pipes - yeh they run very well
Friend Ray's DA100 on tuned CF pipes really screams - Now after flying mine (he says mine is stronger ) he wants to try different pipe timing setup - thatis more header length
He can't pull the 27x10 at all on the current setup as the rpm tuning band is higher - and works best on 26x10 prps turning upwards of 7500 on the ground!
The Devil is in the details .

[ben_beyer]

Hey Hanson, what was the blue hub on your Edge for?

[dick hanson]

that ? is an extension to move prop as far as possible from cowl
This increases prop efficiency.as well as makes for better cooling on some enclosed engine setups.

On YAKS - some guys place prop close to cowl - not a good idea as the cowl really screws with airflow and actually REDUCES the work the prop can do
Don't believe it?
try this
take a std old table or stand mounted fan - turn it on and listen to it at full speed - now take a big platter and move it up behind the fan -as close as possible - the fan will speed up because the work being done is reduced from flow interferrence.