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Old 11-08-2013, 01:41 PM   #1
raron455
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Default (((FIXED))) MY 3w 150 TOC woes,,,fuel or ignition or both??

Ok, so I had the engine in a 40%er it ran good, but didn't idle very well, and would stumble spit and sputter while idling, tried everything from the needles to the fuel, never got rid of the stumble. the top end was always good, and once the motor had heat in it, it ran fine..
I had an aileron lock up in the plane back in june, I was not high only 12 feet or so, I had it in a hover looking like a dying duck, ended up dropping it on its tail, no engine damage at all, plane was flawless from the middle of the turtle deck forward..

Now flash to present, I have another 3w 40% that I just finished, I figured I would freshen this engine up, so I put new plugs in it, and rebuild the carb, but I screwed the carb up, ended up pushing the high speed check valve out,,I said screw it the carb is old I will buy a new one.. But I started reading some post where a lot of guys said putting a da-150 carb on would make it run better since the original is calibrated for a 100cc engine from walbro. So I bought one and istalled it...

TODAY::: engine tune day, got the plane locked down, flipped the F---ing thing over about 200 times, tried needle settings everywhere.. what finally worked was 3/4 on the low and 1 3/4 on the high. Spinning a wood 32x10 prop I had it at 5600 rpm,, I had a decent Idle at about 1300 but the thing was still popping and stumbling like it did with the old carb.. I was tweaking a little more trying to get the needles dialed in, and then all the sudden the power drops off,, 5k then 4k, then about 3500. What the hell, So I check my fuel delivery system all looks good,, decide to pull the carb and clean it, since everything is new maybe something got in there,, NOPE,, inside carb looks brand new, cause it is,, put it back together, same crap, engine starts pretty easy, idles sloppy, try to give it some throttle and it just dies, move the needles around a little more same thing, no luck put the needles back where they were pull the plug clear the cylinder, put the plugs back in, choke flip, starts idles, stumbling and shaking still, give it some throttle dies.

SO I am thinking maybe its the ignition, Hey the guy I bought the engine from had given me a spare when I bought it, I grab it and install it, now the engine wont start at all, 100 flips later, screw it, put the old ignition back on, engine starts, still idling like crap, give it some throttle and it dies..
I don't know what the hell is going on..
ADVICE PLEASE,,, I don't think its the carb, the inlet screen on the carb looked perfect when I opened it up. all passages clear, etc,,,
I am wondering if the ignition can cause this kind of problem,????
I am kind of left a few options, I am a competent mechanic, I do it for a living, but this damn thing has gotten me to the end of my rope...

1. put a new factory carb back on (wga-9),, I don't think this is going to solve anything,!! But I am willing to give it a try
2.pull the engine and send it to someone, I like gerard but hes gonna want to put OE stuff back on it, and that's $$$ and I am not willing to invest that much more in this engine..
3. convert the ignition over to a da unit,, or rexcel???
4. SELL THE ENGINE, AND NEVER OWN ANOTHER 3W

any help here will be appreciated as I am at my wits END...

Last edited by raron455; 11-15-2013 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:30 PM   #2
Andy Thomas
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Is your DA carb new?
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:34 PM   #3
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Sounds like you might have an vacuum leak. I would replace all the gaskets in between the carb and the crankcase. Check that the reed cage is flat along with the carb mounting block. If not flat make it as flat as possible using a sheet of glass and fine sandpaper. Use some Yamabond or equivilent to seal it back up. Along with new gaskets. I usually make my own with bulk material I buy from the auto parts store. Good luck!
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:27 PM   #4
raron455
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Yes, I got the carb brand new from DA this week....

Back when I first got the engine, in march, I got with Gerard. I bought a complete gasket kit, new reed cage, and updated aluminum carb mounting block,, I put it all together with hondabond.. Like I said the engine ran fine but always had a stumble and miss on idle, was always a little better when the engine was warm. The assembly below the carb mounting block has not been disassembled replacing the carb does not affect below the carb.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:44 PM   #5
Bill Vargas
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correction,,, match the alignment marks on the prop hub to the case. Note the postion of the magnet relative to the sensor. Is the magnet under the sensor like it should be?
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Last edited by Bill Vargas; 11-08-2013 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:09 PM   #6
raron455
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Quote: Originally Posted by Bill Vargas
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The pulse holes are matched yes?
I would say yes,, the wga I removed has a single hole for a port that lined up exactly with the gaskets,,, The New wb-27 has a pulse port Hole but it is not directly above the hole in the gasket,,however the hole in the 27 has a channel that extends from it a little around the perimiter of the mounting base, and that lines up with the gaskets.

I made a little example on Ms paint to kinda show it,, Im at work Or I would take a pic,
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:53 PM   #7
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I have very little love for the 3W ignition.. I have always replaced them with either a RCXL or a CH.. Never had anymore problems...
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:41 PM   #8
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I would wonder why the seller had a spare ignition. Perhaps you have 2 bad ignitions.
I agree with Rickster. The earlier 3W ignitions were not exactly the most reliable units on the planet. Milton at RCExtremepower sells a "conversion kit" that will suit your engine (as does Adrian at CH)

Is your reed in good condition?
Have you tried the "WD 40" trick to find airleaks? spray it around the various joints while the engine is running (use the "straw" and don't forget to aim some at the front bearing area - watch out for the spinning prop though - if there is a leak, the engine will tell you immediately you spray the leak.

And - have you checked that your ignition battery is in good condition and there isn't anything screwy going on in the power supply to the ignition?
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:58 PM   #9
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Yes the Reed Is in good shape, it is less thatn 6 months old... the engine ran before this fiasco,, it actually ran pretty good earlier today,, then it just took a crap. I can go out to it right now and choke it flip it about 5-6 times it will pop, choke off flip 5-6 times and it will start, and half-ass Idle, but goose it and it will just die,,,

I will try the WD-40 trick,, never did that,, I always used starting fluid and listen for an RPM increase..


I was able to talk with Gerard earlier, I mentioned the problem of the engine stumbling and kinda missing at Idle. He told me that he believed the cause of that was the spark plug caps on the end of the wires,, says there is some kind of resistor in there? Said I could get two new caps for 44.00$ thats not too bad,, however Since this is an old engine and I suspect it is causing some problems, I think my best bet is to just replace the entire ignition.

I see that there are a couple options,, some are saying swap to the CH igniton,, others saying Rexcel,,, is one better than the other??I dont want to have any problems with this swap, I am plenty capable of swapping the components and setting the timing.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:36 PM   #10
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Your problem is the ignition. The guy that sold you the engine said he gave you a spare ignition, he didn't. He gave you the bad one that he replaced, with the one that ran when you bought it, yeah I'm psychic.

Don't bother with another 3W ignition. Get the Rcexel from Milton. Call him and tell him if you have two magnets or one and he'll set you up. His # is 678 372 7697. Or go to his website and figure it out, he has easy to understand links.

Also, if the reed spacer and carb mount are the old black plastic ones, pitch em. Call Gerhard and get the aluminum versions, much fewer problems with leaks from heat expansion and warping.

http://www.rcextremepower.net/

Last edited by Jedijody; 11-09-2013 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:22 PM   #11
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And if you are using the green carb mounting gaskets from AI swap them out with some paper ones. Mine leaked even though they were new.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:48 PM   #12
raron455
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The reed assembly was bought this march, I also bought the updated aluminum spacer, and Yes I have the black gaskets, not the green ones,, AND yes,, I am a mechanic,, Not a small engine mechanic but an industrial maintenance mechanic/electrician
Thanks fellas,

Right now my plan is this,, I am going to buy a new ignition,, I believe I am going to the CH route, they seem to have a really good setup with a bracket made to locate the sensor just for this engine.
If I still have problems, I am going to remove the reed assembly and check for anything out of the normal, and if it all looks good, I will buy a brand new wga9 that's what Gerard says should be on this engine..even though others are running the wb-27 from Da with no problems... that's the plan

Last edited by raron455; 11-08-2013 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:31 AM   #13
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I bought a CH, but like the RCexl unit better. The Ch locks you into a specific ignition battery voltage which you pick when ordering. If you ever change battery voltage it will not work. The RCexl is just plug and play in that regard. And it comes with multiple mounts and a Hall sensor. CH is extra for these. Good luck!
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:08 AM   #14
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I have 2 3w engines and 3 cheap 50cc engine and have got to the point that I replace the ignition whatever it is with a rcextreme easer on the fingers
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:40 AM   #15
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Quote: Originally Posted by raron455
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....
Right now my plan is this,, I am going to buy a new ignition,, I believe I am going to the CH route, they seem to have a really good setup with a bracket made to locate the sensor just for this engine.
If I still have problems, I am going to remove the reed assembly and check for anything out of the normal, and if it all looks good, I will buy a brand new wga9 that's what Gerard says should be on this engine..even though others are running the wb-27 from Da with no problems... that's the plan
CH makes a good ignition for sure. The RC Extreme ignitions though, as previously mentioned give you more flexibility for powering them. They also have sensors with brackets made for 3W engines that come with the ignition, you don't have to buy it separately, and a much better warranty. Good luck!

Last edited by Jedijody; 11-09-2013 at 02:33 PM.
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