More From Tuscon

[Judge]

One more thing. The TOC had criteria as well. While crowd reaction is nice, what counts is the judges.

Case in point. At the last TOC QQ came out of the 3rd figure in his Sunday Unknown in the wrong direction. He then flew the next 8 figures in the wrong direction, earning 8 very nice zeroes. Yet when he landed the crowd went wild since he flew those zeroes so nicely. Point is that the crowd is not really equipped to know the criteria and how to apply them.

So even when 3D first started showing up at the TOC, the guys who were winning were doing so because they fulfilled the criteria better than anyone else. NOT because they flew 3D.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Jason Noll
	Not completely sure to be honest with you........... The group of about 20 people I was standing with saw it clear as day. No big deal, everybody get's away with one every once in a while. Jason

Everybody needs to REALLY read Jason's last sentence. Embrace what it says and understand that sometimes things will go your way, and other times they won't. But overall they will even out.

I can tell you after being the CD at nearly 30 scale aerobatics contests I NEVER ONCE had a guy come up and tell me that he got scored when he deserved a zero. Want to guess how often I heard pilots complain that they got a 7 when they deserved an 8??

[TonyThomasian]

Keep it up Kyle! I think your flying is the most "jaw dropping" than anyones i've ever seen! I love your precision and 3D flying! The smoothest, most precise flying that i know of! Good Job!

[casey g]

have to agree with ya on that one

	Quote: Originally Posted by TonyThomasian
	Keep it up Kyle! I think your flying is the most "jaw dropping" than anyones i've ever seen! I love your precision and 3D flying! The smoothest, most precise flying that i know of! Good Job!

[Redneck Shaun]

I'm not sure if there is a easy answer here. Yes I do think pilots should be able to compete without risking thier planes from flying so low.

The answer: Hold fast to a nothing under ABOUT(and good luck inforcing the rule) a 20' bottom. Nothing under 20' rule. Now that sounds fine but what happens when there are pilots that want to fly low? What if they want to express their flying by being wide open throttle 1' off the ground?

Yea, I do think they shouldn't have feel they have to fly inches off the ground to place high in the standings. But I don't see how a rule could be implemented to make this happen?
Not a easy answer if you ask me?
Shaun

[RC330LXFlya]

After watching the videos of Kyle and QQ, I would have to disagree with Jason, and while I am not saying Kyle should be in first(thats not my place to take that away from QQ because his flight was awesome too), I dont think your judgement of his low flying is fair. He had just as many precision aspects as QQ, but when they went into their 3D stuff Kyle just got a little lower, is there anything wrong with that? And QQ got pretty low too on a couple maneuvers. You said his performance is more of an airshow performance, so what was different about everyone else's? Just my $.02

btw-nice flying by everyone, and keep it up tomarrow!

[TonyThomasian]

A "young" pilot flying smooth,low,precise, compared to someone who fly's a little bit higher, smooth, and precise. Also just watching Kyle fly with the music, is a different story!!!!! He's just amazing w/ or w/o music!
Everyone's doing a great job, and good luck tommorow.

[RC330LXFlya]

No, I dont think you can be "flexible", that just causes all kinds of problems. You have to judge everyone the same or the whole idea is just out the window.

[rdgood]

OK here ya go...

To be honest - the only thing I am seeing here is that Kyle is a very strong up and com'er in the competitions. Let's clarify another fact - IMHO - Quique,Leesberg and Kyle are the only ones who seem to be able to do the rolling harrier low with extreme control IMHO. Lets face it the rolling harrier - done correctly (with no nose wobble - consistent angle etc...takes 500 flight hrs or more maye be a 1000 hrs to perfect. To me - its probably the hardest manuever in the book.)It just seems that Kyle has the inate ability to do it consistently very low. If he can do it with out touching great! If ya touch the deck - game over.
Thats the rules.

Now just from catching the tone of the recent diatribe so far it seems that there is a bit of resentment towards Kyle's rolling harrier abilities - IMHO. OK thats just competition and we should leave it there.

Now to shore up the other side of the argument - judging - on the whole - not saying that Kyle should be in first - but ya gotta admit there are alot of folks who wish they could fly like him. Give it some time and Kyle will improve and start placing higher as time goes by. If ya ask me the low harrier is definitely his signature manuever - that he was the first to define!!!! Oh I guess you could say - Dare to be different -define yourself , make your mark with your abilities not your words!!! now do ya catch my drift here!!!!


Ronster

[RC330LXFlya]

Well said

I cant wait to see who comes out on top, its gonna be a close one!

[Wrong Way Jones]

Yes, i totally agree that it is impresive to see guys down on the deck doing rolling harriers and hovering, but i dont agree with giving them a higher score because they fly lower. Its just not fair to those awsome pilots that can do some amazing stuff, but dont have the nerve to do it a foot off the ground or just dont want to take the chance of crashing their plane. And IMO i think to some people the freestyle has just turn into a competition of who can get the lowest, and thats not what is all about. Its about showing how much you can really do with that plane, matching it to the beat of the music, showing your skills as a pilot, and doing it all in that 4 minutes.

In my freestyle, i made a list of every manuvers i coud possobly think of, from a simple complete roll, down to the rolling harrier, and i try to put every single one of those manuvers in that 4 minutes. That way youve shown the judges, that you have what it takes to do those very slow graceful manuvers, which are very hard to do correctly, and the very fast high pace rolling manuvers. And if you add the presition, youve really shown your skills off and completed the criteria from head to toe. IMHO I think that QQ and Jason have really done this the best, thats why you see them wining everything these days. theres my $.02

[POWERPLAY]

To look at Kyles freestyle and only comment on how low he flew is silly. Look carefully at how precisely he flew to the music and the total control and absence of any recovery maneuver. I have never seen anyone do rollers that slow and gracefully, it looks like his plane is lighter than air. He may not have scored as well based on the critera but a show of hands from the fans might indicate a different result.

I really think it would be cool to let the spectators judge the Freestyle because it is really about having fun, putting on a show and thrilling the fans. And you don't have to fly on the deck to be a good Freestyler but Cheerleaders don't have to wear mini skirts to be good either, they both simply add to the wow factor.

[Judge]

Once again, I STRONGLY encourage all of you to download the 4-Minute Freestyle scoring criteria from the TAS site.

Pilots are judged on three major areas:

A) Technical Merit (90K)

Complete Use of the Flight Envelope Utilizing the Exploitation
of Aerodynamic and Gyroscopic Forces (20K)

Execution of Individual Maneuvers (40K)

Wide Variety of Figures Flown on Different Axes and Flight
Paths (30K)

B. Artistic Impression (90K)

Pleasing and Continuous Flow of Figures with Contrasting
Periods of Dynamic and Graceful Maneuvers (50K)

Presentation of Individual and Combinations of Figures in
Their Best Orientation and Optimal Position (40K)

C. Positioning (20K)

Symmetry of the Presentation Utilizing the Performance Zone
to Maximize the Audience and Judges Perception, Reception, and
Viewing of the Program (20 K)

It is the pilot who best fulfills ALL the above criteria that will end up the winner. But notice again that "How Low Can You Go" is not one of them.

And finally, the TAS uses TEN (10) judges for the Freestyle. So there are LOTS of experienced eyes looking at each pilot's routine. Winning is no fluke.

[rdgood]

Well now -
Lets see ---Quique first in Freestyle and Kyle Second... hummm now isnt that special... I call it as I see um.

enuf said


Ronster

[bryan01601]

Thats Karma right there for ya !!! Great Job Kyle Show-em how it's done !

I for one thought Some posts in this thread were in poor taste.