That shoulder snap thingy can fool you. We had an unlimited pilot fly both a shoulder snap and a regular inverted snap back to back at one of the Clover Creek Judging Schools. The first time I saw a shoulder snap I knew it didn't look right but I couldn't put my finger on it! I wasn't the only one either! After the pilot doing many of them back to back we could eventually see the difference. Learning how to judge takes time just like learning how to fly the maneuvers!!

Originally Posted by wingwall

Also, Clark, you should know that a "shoulder roll" is the application of opposite rudder from the direction of the roll. It commonly happens when pilots are first attempting to do a negative snap, and they push the rudder stick in the same direction as the aileron stick.

This would be a snap that then transitions to a shoulder roll - much like the negative snap you had mentioned (ail, rudder sticks same direction with down elevator) starting out in a positive snap - sticks same direction with up elevator and then going to down elevator is now right into the shoulder roll.

Bottom line - if the snap is done correctly the plane will be pitched towards the canopy whether the snap ends upright or inverted. As per the rules you are allowed an immediate correction in pitch and yaw following the snap with no deductions. This being applied to the downloop with a 1-1/2 snap on bottom the plane will be pitched down if the snap is performed correctly.

Originally Posted by chymas

This being applied to the downloop with a 1-1/2 snap on bottom the plane will be pitched down if the snap is performed correctly.

Not necessarily. Since a snap may have initial pitch departure occur prior to OR simultaneously with auto rotation, you may pull the nose up hard just before performing your 1 1/2 positive and when you exit, the plane will be just about level. This is a particularly useful procedure that is not really necessary until you hit advanced. It takes some practice, but once you get the hang of it, it will become second nature.

Originally Posted by kwilson

Not necessarily. Since a snap may have initial pitch departure occur prior to OR simultaneously with auto rotation, you may pull the nose up hard just before performing your 1 1/2 positive and when you exit, the plane will be just about level. This is a particularly useful procedure that is not really necessary until you hit advanced. It takes some practice, but once you get the hang of it, it will become second nature.

Are you guys talking about snaps ... Or a bump n roll ? ;-)

I think it's only called a bump n roll when you do it in the Southern Hemisphere.

Hey, I never thought my post on doing a half roll on the bottom of a loop could create so much discussion....

ok, here is my next question..

what advice for doing a 4 of 8 on the top of a loop?

Use the same direction rudder input as you are rolling and keep it round.
Oh and practice!

I see!! OK, thanks. Makes sense, if I went opposite, then it would not keep radius. Great advice!

Actually I was thinking of a loop starting inverted at the bottom and then rolling from upright to inverted at the top and finishing upright. I just looked at this years intermediate sequence and it is opposite of that, so you will need to use opposite rudder to keep it round.

Sorry to cause any confusion.

Another question. IF there is a 270 roller, with 3 rolls in from inverted, if coming into the roller from left to right or right to left , the exit will be in Y - axis.

Entrance will be from X- axis.

You may already be knowing what I am about to ask, could one perform the roller by choice from the pilot, to either take the airplane in or out?

Originally Posted by orthobird

Another question. IF there is a 270 roller, with 3 rolls in from inverted, if coming into the roller from left to right or right to left, the exit will be in Y-axis.

Entrance will be from X-axis.

You may already be knowing what I am about to ask, could one perform the roller by choice from the pilot, to either take the airplane in or out?

Absolutely. In Aresti the X-axis is directional. It must be flown in the direction shown. In Aresti the Y-axis is non-directional. You get to choose whether you finish going in or out.

Thanks Dean, by the way, this is Cam!! It was really great meeting you this past weekend. We had a ton of fun.

The same Cam from Lansing, MI area? Says you're in Shreveport...

Oh nope!! Lol. My name is Cambize. Short is Cam. I live in Shreveport, Louisiana.