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Old 01-23-2013, 05:43 PM
andyjuice22 is offline
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Fly Hard! Land Soft...
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Originally Posted by wyo69cowboy View Post
Wonder if the full scale boys will ever be able to get much above 1:1 thrust with a piston engine? This plane's gotta be close, at 1200lbs and "close to 400hp", as claimed. The Beast was also claimed to be just a little above 1:1. Is it possible with pistons? Or do they need turboprops?
it is possible. i mean you just kind of have to build the plane as you would a model plane only it has to hold a person. also at the cleveland show Sean told me that they are thinking about making a Oracle Challenger 4 that is 200 or 300 pounds lighter than the challenger 3.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:24 PM
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Steve Wolf of Wolf Aircraft conceived, designed and built the airplane known as the Wolf Pro and later built one for Tucker. Steve came up with the ideas you see in it like the 8 ailerons, tail, etc. Even the rod style landing gear is a Wolf thing. The airplane is actually the second one built by Wolf. Wyche Coleman of Louisiana got the first one and when Tucker saw it and flew it, he had to have one too. So Sean's plane is not the only one and not the only one to have an airfoiled tail.

I built the Python, Ti-12, Beast, Bulldog II for Jim LeRoy and the Pitts Viper among a few others. I am good friends with Steve Wolf and have built some of the components in the airplanes he has made over the years just as he has made some of the parts in our airplanes.

To give you a comparison of thrust to weight, a Pitts S2B has 880lb of thrust at a take off weight of 1700lb which gives a thrust to weight ratio of 0.5. Tucker's plane has about 1250-1300lb of thrust on a take off weight of around 1575lb so a thrust to weight of around 0.82. Python, Beast and Ti-12 all have a take off weight of around 1775lb with a thrust of 1850lb giving a thrust to weight ratio of 1.04. All of these ratios improve with fuel and smoke oil burn.

We are currently building the lightest ever single seat model 12 for a client who flies both full scale and RC plus have another one right behind it to build. These will have take off weights of right at 1700lb (1390lb empty weight) and will have the latest of BPE M14P engines that produce nearly 450hp and over 1850lb of thrust with the 102" diameter MT 3 blade props.

Another non-biplane airplane to look at is the Angry Fish. It is an XtremeAir single seater modified to have the BPE M14P engine on it and a special MT prop. It is nearly as light as Tucker's plane and has 2 times the thrust. It can hover and then accelerate vertically out of the hover. You may know this line of airplanes by their former name, SBach.

Yes, we full scale airplane creators do look at what the RC models can do. Full scale pilots want the same capabilities. I tell them no problem, just gotta do it with servos and not fit it for a human to fly and we can do it. Having to fit people in the airplane REALLY makes things difficult.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:30 PM
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Another thing is propellers. They are good, and getting better but seem to be the limiting factor. I mean there are full scale piston powered helicopters. Disc size, area and RPM/gear reduction,, ect,ect.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:37 PM
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Mr. Kimball,

How about that Yellow biplane (pelican, canary or what ever it was called..lol) with the Turbo prop on it? What so you know about that and its weight vs thrust?

Thank you sir!
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:51 PM
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Mr. Kimball,

How about that Yellow biplane (pelican, canary or what ever it was called..lol) with the Turbo prop on it? What so you know about that and its weight vs thrust?

Thank you sir!
Turbo Toucan, Turbine Toucan ?
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:53 PM
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Wayne Hadley could hover and pull out with the Turbo Raven. I saw it,,, at Reno (high and hot).
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:15 PM
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Gettin better 1 [email protected] a time!
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Turbo Raven was the one I was thinking of...saw the last flight where the prop malfunctioned on the downline and he had that nasty pancake landing

Thanks to Mr. Kimball for the info! I'll have to look up that new "Angry Fish" with the radial; that ought to be interesting-looking! Your latest M12 variations sound pretty cool with that power to weight as well.

I'm sure there are folks out there with enough money for a turbine powerplant; are they not seen in aerobatic planes much for cost, throttle response, or some other reason? Don't seem to be too many out there...
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:18 PM
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Gettin better 1 [email protected] a time!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N726AC View Post
Another thing is propellers. They are good, and getting better but seem to be the limiting factor. I mean there are full scale piston powered helicopters. Disc size, area and RPM/gear reduction,, ect,ect.
Skip Stewart posted a pic of his new prop on Facebook: it looks quite a bit different than current aerobatic props...
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:26 PM
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Hi

I found a few pictures of the Angry Fish, look amazing !!!! I can wait to see that beast flying and torque rolling like RC.

http://blog.sandglasspatrol.com/inde...ara-xtreme-air


Take care !!
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:29 PM
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Skip Stewart posted a pic of his new prop on Facebook: it looks quite a bit different than current aerobatic props...
Saw that, Rob Holland did the same.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:32 PM
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That'll be in interesting video. "12 dudes 6 poles". I'll let someone else watch that.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:41 PM
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"shaking my head"
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:42 PM
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That'll be in interesting video. "12 dudes 6 poles". I'll let someone else watch that.
This is just getting worse...
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:49 PM
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Kevin....thanks for laying out the facts . Sean can fly, but he also knows how to 'gild the lily".
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:53 PM
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Center Punch it!
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