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Old 09-11-2019, 05:48 PM
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I hammer at 1500 feet
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Rifle Rolls

Who likes to do them?

Question,

when we see these amazing extreme pilots doing them, does anyone know how they do it?

When they roll the aircraft with aileron, when the airplane gets into knife edge, do they apply rudder, or when the airplane is inverted, do they give a little push,

or do they apply imput at every 90 degrees?

Seems to be done so fast, I cannot fathom they do all 4 inputs with all 4 positions of the aircraft during a 360 roll
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:02 PM
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It is something I've tried to get down forever, but I think my old age has stopped me. My reflexes just arent there to put all 4 inputs together that quickly. It is the hardest stunt to pull off correctly in my opinion.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Kurt View Post
It is something I've tried to get down forever, but I think my old age has stopped me. My reflexes just arent there to put all 4 inputs together that quickly. It is the hardest stunt to pull off correctly in my opinion.

it seems to be tiny bit of inputs, rudder and elevator but not much of either. at all 4 points. I have done it for maybe 10 foot with a 48" electric plane but that is about it. Jase is the Riffle roll master that kid is wild with those. i don't know how he doesn't lawn dart it into the ground.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:44 PM
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I hammer at 1500 feet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Kurt View Post
It is something I've tried to get down forever, but I think my old age has stopped me. My reflexes just arent there to put all 4 inputs together that quickly. It is the hardest stunt to pull off correctly in my opinion.
i could never do it either. It is amazing that the young pilots are so good at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by epoweredrc View Post
it seems to be tiny bit of inputs, rudder and elevator but not much of either. at all 4 points. I have done it for maybe 10 foot with a 48" electric plane but that is about it. Jase is the Riffle roll master that kid is wild with those. i don't know how he doesn't lawn dart it into the ground.
If i tried, I'm sure I would do that. Jase is good.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:26 PM
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I often wonder if an elevator to rudder mix would help or hurt... I can do it but I stay high so I don’t fold my plane up Incase things go south!! Lol
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:23 PM
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Jase said, in an interview, that he does use both elevator and rudder corrections during a rifle roll.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:52 PM
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No expert here, but I find a slow roll with neutral balance is ruined with elevator input. The plane simply holds altitude upright and inverted as long as the rudder does its part in the knife edge portion. I used to only nudge the elevator while inverted as that was my point in making corrections but that was a patch for a ruined maneuver. So it makes sense and has worked well in my own feeble attempts at working up the speed to focus on just nudging the rudder for straight lines since KE is the only point it drops off and get into adding elevator for changing direction or altitude.
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMatch View Post
No expert here, but I find a slow roll with neutral balance is ruined with elevator input. The plane simply holds altitude upright and inverted as long as the rudder does its part in the knife edge portion. I used to only nudge the elevator while inverted as that was my point in making corrections but that was a patch for a ruined maneuver. So it makes sense and has worked well in my own feeble attempts at working up the speed to focus on just nudging the rudder for straight lines since KE is the only point it drops off and get into adding elevator for changing direction or altitude.
K, no expert here myself but I have also found rudder to be the most important control input. This is with a CG that is a bit rearward. When we use to balance planes more nose heavy, elevator inputs were more important. Add to the above, some of the newer plane designs just require less control inputs.
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:48 AM
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At my age I can only live vicariously through those who can actually do those things...


Fun to watch and I don't have to spend near as much
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:52 AM
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I'll go to my grave still trying to do a rolling harrier. Rifle shot? Not in my dreams. Rudder only inputs makes sense though.
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:10 AM
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Don't be too quick to give up! I have a genetic nerve disorder taking out my legs and effecting my hands, and am in my 50s... With a ton of effort I can make a few laps doing rolling harriers in different directions. I was always known for my patience, uh, known for not having any, so there's an example of why you should keep trying! With my limits I focus on Kyle Woyshnis' style as I've never been a fan of XA to start with. Being able to do the slow moves with finesse is my goal. Rifle rolls are something I just tinker with at times. Inverted harriers are my Achilles Heal... For some stupid reason the pucker factor kills these.
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Old 09-12-2019, 09:38 AM
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Found a short video, and hes not in a straight line but you can see how quick the rudder and elevator inputs are.

Low pass Knife edge to Rifle roll (0 min 43 sec)


Found a longer better video with them this one seems to be in slow motion
Realflight 7.5 - Practicing Rifle rolling (5 min 8 sec)
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:46 AM
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I use rudder, no elevator.
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Old 09-12-2019, 12:52 PM
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thanks guys been working on them since I was 50 , now 10 yrs later I can say its still difficult but one secret was revealed. "I use rudder no ele" there lies my mistake
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:16 PM
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I hammer at 1500 feet
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Just saw that video: there is no way I can do that

I will try it in a small airplane first
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