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Old 12-15-2009, 04:46 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

I see in the one picture Tim didn't go with an offset rudder servo arm. Is the straight arm better than the 3.5 offset arm? I havn't puchased any servo arms yet and want to order the right rudder arm. I'm going with the SWB 1.5 arms for the ail and elev.
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Old 12-15-2009, 04:52 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

I recommend using the straight arms. Look at my post #33.
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Old 12-15-2009, 04:52 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

If you want to get full rudder travel from elevator to elevator the 3.5 inch arm is the way to go. The offset arm has worked very well for us. We stock the proper SWB arms for the 78" Extra for Hitec and JR servos.
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Old 12-15-2009, 05:12 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

Attached are some pictures of the plane I just finished for Sadd.
We maiden the plane today. It was nice to see two 78" Extras at the field.
The total weight of the plane minus batteries came in at 9 pounds, 6 ounces.

Total flying weight with a 10 cell 4500 was 12 pounds, 3 ounces. At this weight the plane felt very light on the wing loading. The first flight went well but we noticed we needed a little bit more nose weight, so after about 6 minutes we landed and moved the batteries forward.

The second flight felt more locked in with the cg right at 5.5 inches. The plane tracks very well and the rudder is very effective. Unfortunately on the second flight we forgot to push the latch pins on the canopy back, and the canopy popped off during a vertical snap. No damage to the plane, but the canopy needs a little repair.

The Scorpion 5525-225 outrunner with the Mejzlik 20x12 on 10 cells puts out plenty of power for the most demanding maneuvers. I only went to full throttle a couple of times on an upline.

We will trim out the airplane in the next few days and report back.

The last picture is Sadd with his new airplane. Notice the grin from ear to ear.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:28 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

For those that have the power combo or have put together a cage mount can somebody tell me if I have this correct? I've never put together a cage mount before. A copper washer came with the cage mount along with a rear bearing support. Does this copper washer go between the motor and the rear bearing support? Also the rear bearing goes into the metal cage and it isn't that tight of a fit. Should I apply a drop of ca to keep the whole bearing from turning in the cage? Here's a picture please let me know if you see something that isn't right. I'm trial fitting everything together first before mounting in the plane. Thanks
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:12 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

That is correct Mike. When you add the rear bolts and nuts everything will feel more secure.
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:19 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

Ok great! Just wanted to be sure.
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:16 AM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

Well the plane is done (missing one piece of loop side Velcro for batteries, darn), the weather looks like it's going to be good, so the two blue ones should maiden tomorrow. I just weighed mine without batteries, and it came in at 9 lbs 5 oz. That means my light 3700 setup will be 11lbs 6.5 oz. Tim's flew plenty light at 12 1/2 pounds, so mine should be a real floater.

For those of you looking for max throws, I strongly suggest you use the SWB arms Chris suggests. My 1 1/4" arms are just not getting the throw I'll want for 3D. A 3" straight arm works OK for rudder, but 1/ 1/2" is needed on Aileron and Elevator. As soon as my SWB's get here I'll be changing my setup. It should be fine for the maiden, and precision, the way it is.

The rest of the build went pretty much as expected, and described in the manual. All of the kits we got from this first production run were missing the blind nuts for mounting the cowl. Not a big deal, we all found some locally. The only mistake I found in the manual is regarding the installation of the elevator servos. The manual says to mount the servos so the arm is at the rear. This is incorrect, you will never get the supplied Titanium Links short enough to fit. Just mount the servos the other way, and all will be perfect. No big deal, but you may want to update the manual Chris.

Tomorrow we will fly one plane with the EF Torque Motor/ESC setup, and one with the Neu Motor setup. I'll give a detailed report tomorrow evening. Wish us luck!!!
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Old 12-18-2009, 01:03 AM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

My plane has flown! In fact, it has had 10 flights over two days. The maiden went very well. I used my mid-weight 4350 MaH packs for the first flight. After a thorough pre-flight, I put her in the air. Just two clicks of up elevator, and she was flying straight hands off. I then pulled up, rolled inverted, and the CG was right on. I guess this was the result of helping maiden the first two planes. I had also used this knowledge to put in two mixes, Rudder to elevator, and rudder to aileron. The Neu motor performed as I expected, plenty of power, very efficient, and a great match for this airframe. My plane was almost dialed in on the first flight.

Here is a picture of the electronic setup inside the plane. Not much to see with this light weight setup. The interior is simple, and clean. All the wires run under the battery, and radio decks, so no messy rats nest. You can see the Receiver, the CC BEC Pro, the MPI Arming Switch, and the batteries (funny, the Hyperion battery color is almost a perfect match for the blue). Everything worked as expected, I really like this setup for it's safety, and simplicity.

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I always read maiden flight reports with a skeptics eye. The enthusiasm of a new plane seems to get the best of people. They all say that the plane is the best at everything. They all "fly like a 40%". You guys know what I'm talking about. I want to do an honest report so the readers of this thread can get a fair idea if this plane might be of interest to them. In this regard we are very lucky to have multiple planes, with different power packages to evaluate. We are also lucky to have some very experienced pilots, who compete in IMAC at a high level, with really good custom built competition planes. They have a great baseline from which to compare. Without exception, we are all very impressed with the flight characteristics of this airframe. Chris has done an exceptional job with the tweaks. Because of the long tail moment, it tracks extremely well, the geometry of the sequences just naturally look right. The fuse shape really helps with rolls, and knife edge flight. I also fly state of the art pattern planes, and this one compares very favorably to those, rare in scale planes. Snaps are one of my pet peeves (and biggest challenges) in planes. Yes, they will all do them, few do them well. This one does, it breaks crisply, and stops when you want it to, I like that. In short, this plane will be a strong competitor in the EMAC series. It is a very good precision airplane.

OK, OK, I know you are all wanting to hear about the 3-D stuff. First, if you have been following this thread, you know I spent some effort to keep the plane light. I have flown mine with my light battery setup at 11.5 LBS, and with my heavy batteries at just over 12 LBS. The plane doesn't care much in that weight range. It flies very light either way. It is also one of those rare planes that will do 3-D very well with a neutral, precision CG. For those of you who like to fly both, you know that this is definitely not the norm, especially in small, and mid-sized planes. Flat spins, are flat, Harriers are solid, and again because of the long tail moment, hovering is incredibly stable. The plane just likes to fly on it's side. Get the mixes dialed in, and it's hands off. It does some of the prettiest knife edge spins I have seen, without depending on huge amounts of throttle to get it flat, and the rotation going. Hopefully, Pedro will takes some good video over the weekend, and you will see what I am talking about. The plane just rocks!

The plane comes with side force generators (SFGs). We all maidened our planes without them. Both Tim, and I have put ours on, and have been experimenting with them to see if we like the plane better with, or without. They do make a difference, most notably with anything involving the rudder, and high alpha. Yes, they make the high alpha stuff noticeably easier. If 3-D is your thing, you will want to fly with the SFGs. They accentuate the authority of the rudder a lot. They also provide a significant amount of added lift in knife edge. It is much easier to maintain level altitude in rolling, especially rolling circles. I was worried that they would have a negative impact on snaps with all the added weight, and air influence on the wing tips. Not so, snaps were just fine. Tim loves the way the plane flies with them. I had them on for all of my flights today. I am still at the point where I have not adjusted to the increased rudder authority. I keep dialing down my rudder, but haven't found the sweet spot for me yet. So for me the jury is still out.

We have all arrived at similar setups as far as rates go. 3-D is easy, you want everything you can get as usual. With the recommended servos arms, you will get a ton. I am not a switch flipper, I prefer to set up my rates so I can perform pretty much my entire sequence (except Stall Turns) on a single flight mode. Here is what I came up with for this airframe on my JR-9303 2.4 radio:

Rates:
Elevator 12 degrees up, 14 degrees down. (for spin entries I have a switch that gives me 25 degrees of elevator,everything else remains the same)

Aileron 20 degrees

Rudder 1/4 throw (for Stall turns I have a switch that gives me max rudder,everything else remains the same)

Mixes:
Rudder to Elevator
Right rudder 8% up
Left rudder 9% up

Rudder to Aileron
Right rudder 8% left Aileron
Left rudder 8% right Aileron

Throttle to Elevator (downline mix)
Low throttle, 1% down Elevator

Pretty simple mixes that indicate a well designed airframe.

I fly IMAC, and love my big gas planes. Big planes just fly better, and we all know it. I started flying with electrics, and have a special passion for them. There are lots of fun, small electrics on the market. But small planes just don't fly that great if you are used to flying big ones. You can convert (I have), the mid sized gas planes to electric, but it is expensive, they usually come out heavier than the gas version, and flight times are too short. I have not been completely satisfied with any of the converted planes. The EF 78" Extra has filled a very special place in electric flight. This plane flies big, light, and with precision. A 10 cell 5000 MaH battery setup is affordable at only around $130.00 for a pair of 5 cells. Flight time with my Neu motor is 9 minutes, which is plenty of time for two of even the Unlimited IMAC sequences. If you wanted to enter an AMA pattern contest you could fly in any of the classes at regional events. If you want to fly 3-D, this plane does it without compromise.

Below is a picture of my new EF 78" Extra in my hanger with my other planes. They are, Dalton Extra 300, built by Kenny Lauter, ZN-Line Extra 330S originally built by A.J. Lee, re-painted by Kenny, Aero Works 35% Extra 260, CA models Passport F3A plane. Pretty good company, and the first electric that I think belongs on the same flight line as these planes. Yes, it is that good!
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We will be flying again all weekend. More pictures, hopefully some video, and flight reports to come!
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:53 AM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

Great Report!! Congrats! Looking foreward to reading some flight reports on the one powered by the EF Power Combo!
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Old 12-18-2009, 10:06 AM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

Nice report Steve, we'll have to get some video on Saturday.
Oh... one thing.. I built the fuselage on your Dalton 300, Kenny did the wings, stabs, rudder and an awesome
job at covering.
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:19 AM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

That must be why it flies so straight! Video on Saturday will be great. You can fly the 78" with the SFG's and see what you think.
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:12 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

Thanks for the flight report. Sounds like it flies a lot like the 88" Extra. -couldn't be better! Enjoy it!

Btw, you have quite the hanger! WOW!
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Old 12-18-2009, 01:03 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

Anyone know where to pick up the velcro that is used to line the battery tray floor and for the batteries?
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Old 12-18-2009, 01:43 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 Build

Home Depot, Lowes or pretty much any hardware store. Adhesive backed Velcro is pretty common. You can purchase a roll that will last for many aircraft.
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