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Old 02-04-2007, 10:02 PM
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GiantStyle Yapoleno Hucker!
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

Thanks Dan. I'll have to look that up. You mention his long canopy version... ? I've only seen the shorter version, unless the longer canopy version is the one in my first post....

Several people mentioned the flat tail surfaces, and I simply had never noticed them before (in 20+ yrs looking at Lasers).
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Old 02-05-2007, 09:43 AM
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

Yes, I was talking about the one pictured in post one. The Laniers and Godfreys didn't have that canopy.

There are pluses and minuses for flat surfaces. I really think for IMAC it might be a wash. Airfoil definitely seems to have an advantage for 3D. I think a lot of it has to do with control surface siffness at big deflections. Just opinion.

Dan
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Old 02-05-2007, 12:39 PM
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyC View Post
Its more than still alive, John made it perfect.. same color scheme, looks like its brand new. Very nice looking plane!
Yes the "Dean" custom LASER is just like new and I can honestly say it flys super sweet! It's not a 3D animal, but was never intended to be. It excels in IMAC and flys very precise lines! The editor for AMA's Model Avaition mag (Mike Ramsey) got ahold of it at the Joe Nall last year for a few flights, and fell in love with the way it flew! I have a 3W 75i in it and it has TONS of horsepower! It is a snap rolling fool....stops on a dime and will do a knife edge loop with no problem.
I'm keeping it!
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Old 02-05-2007, 08:40 PM
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Father of the Scale Furum
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

Who made that one originally Texx?
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Old 02-05-2007, 11:10 PM
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

I have one of the original Lanier 33% with a Brison 4.2. John (Texx) Kohler made up the graphics up for me... Still have it,was gonna get rid of it. But now you guys are making me keep it flyin!!!

Cya,
Frank
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Old 02-06-2007, 02:33 PM
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

I have a Lanier 33% with a BME 100 in it. The spark plug just touches it on one side so I cut a small hole in the cowling. I do 3 snaps on take off to a knife edge cirlce and it can also high alpha knife edge. Hovering is no problem so I don't see the problem with rudder authority. Anyone find pics of the 40% Laser yet?
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Old 02-07-2007, 02:37 PM
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Flying: Giant Scale 3D
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

After 2.5 years, I'm still enjoying my Laser. I've been thinking about a 120 inch version....
Greetz.
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Old 02-07-2007, 04:36 PM
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

Hey,
Where were all you laser lovers when I was trying to peddle mine on the bay
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Old 04-07-2007, 05:59 PM
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

Check out my buddy's thread ...35% laser w/ DA 50
He had a 33% laser @ 15lbs w/ a DA 50 , now hes building a 35% with a DA 50 ,projecting @ 17 lbs. Same guy that just finished the 40% Carden 260 @ 28lbs w/DA 100......
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:25 PM
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

My first giant scale was a 103 inch span laser , man it flew well for how
heavy it was . At 35 lb and with only a 73cc converted chain saw she was very fat and slow . But you should of seen how well it would fly the basic seq .

I could only imagine how good it would of been if had been 10 lb lighter
and with some larger controll surfaces . To me it had the same look as the
extra 260 . Cant wait to see one in a 40%

Stu
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:27 PM
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

Hey there!

I've been chatting back and forth with this guy that designs airplanes. Since the Edge 540 is based on the Laser 200. Thanks to Leo Loudenslager.. We may make up an Edge wing and put it on my Lanier 33%. I would just have to find a cowl that would work to make it look like more like an Edge..

For the Full size Laser 200,you can get an Edge Wing Kit to fit it.. How cool is that?
I read that on some bio of Leo Loudenslager..

Cya
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:44 PM
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

Yep, the Edge from the Laser, and the Shark too. WhyFlyHigh, is the Shark in the Smithsonian now? It used to be there at Zivko didn't it? Can you enlighten us as to why the Edge was designed and how that happened?

Fox Manuf. and Bobby Bradford still have a couple of 50% lasers that used to fly regularly a few years back.
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Old 04-07-2007, 10:29 PM
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

To start with the only thing the Edge, Laser, and Shark share is there wing location. Leo's mods to the Stephen's acro is what brought midwing planes to the top of the heap, and his flying ability. When he was done only 5% of the original plane was left.

The Shark is hanging in the EAA museum in Oshkosh. It was built at ZAI.

The Edge actually was originally just a wing. Some Lasers were having issues with there wood wings failing and there was an issue getting the right wood for the spars. Same reason why Extra went to composite wings on there 6 cylinder planes. The wing's airfoil was designed by John Roncz. The airfoil is quite unique in that it is designed specifically to allow the flow to seperate and reattach very quickly. What you want for snaps. I know of one model that used the Edge airfoil and it was uncontrollable. In RC applications you really don't want flow seperation too easily. The straight leading edge was actually selected for the most part for presentation reasons. It was though that the straight lines would present wel for competition aerobatics.

After putting a few wings on Lasers and Rebels, (Wayne's Raven for example) it was decided that a whole new plane was the way to go. The basic design has remained unchanged since 1991. About 1998 ZAI went to a composite tail because that is what the customers wanted. It looks nicer and does seem to tumble better. It is heavier though and for precision aerobatics it is questionable if the composite tail has an advantage. The only advatage here is that the newer tail allows for ball bearing hinges for a smoother feel.

That is the Reader's Digest version.

Dan
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Old 04-07-2007, 10:43 PM
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchless View Post
Last year, I put up a thread "Whats the Next Big Thing?"

https://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/...g-thing-7.html

and got tons of responses. It was really interesting seeing what everyone likes, dislikes, etc.

In addition to that thread, I have been looking through 25yrs of Sport Aviation magazine and checking out the great aerobatic airplanes that have been built through the years. Seeing the first coverage of the Ultimate bipe in a mag and other greats has been fun.

Reading those mags, it really shows that the Stevens Akro and the Lazer really are the godfathers of modern unlimited class aircraft in the West. Leo broke ground with them and finally wrestled the competitions from the Pitts and its variants, while also taking competition up a notch.

That got me asking myself - Why not build a Laser for 3D? The airplane has good element alignment overall, as well as nice planform and area distribution. With a little 'adjustment' here and there, a good 3D airframe should be possible.

So tell me, why would a Laser not be a good subject?
You are right on track, in fact it's a perfect subject to keep the weight down because it has a fairly low volume platform to work with. A couple of years ago I built a lanier 33% Laser for 3D flying. The first priority was to get that wing loading down and the second was to increase the control surface area; so I lengthened the ailerons to within 2.00" from the fuse sides and increased the depth by 12% overall.
Next I increased the rudder taper ratio starting at the top and getting larger towards the bottom by 3 degrees, I also did the same with the horizontal stabs tapering from the tips getting larger coming inboard towards the fuse. I also counter balanced the hoizontal stabs. The finished flying weight was 15lbs. 8ozs. with a DA 50cc on a stock exhaust. I can't tell you all enough on just how important the overall finished weight of an airplane this size will be effected in the full 3D relm, Oh, did I mention how important the overall weight is? If you want it to fly very close to a shock flyer this should be your target weight goal. My Laser was a 3D monster; In fact at that time I owned a couple of 3.3 C/A Yaks and A Double vision and the laser became my airplane of choice to fly almost every time I went flying, so build those Laser's you won't be dissapointed, just keep those calaries off, and the best to you all; in your builds.

Bob Sawyer
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Old 04-07-2007, 11:03 PM
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Re: Why not a Laser.......

Well my Laser was a stock Lanier. I lessened the weight a little by goin with the Lanier 33% ARF wings,their built up instead of foam. This year Im goin to try to Get the foam rear turtle deck,and the clear canopy/hatch. I already have the fuse with lightening holes goin down the length of the fuse sides.. I need to also get the lighter fiberglass Cowl.. I'm not sure what the weight is right now. I do have a Brison 4.2 and it flys well, It doesnt seem to want to tip stall at slow speeds.
We will see,Im just goin to fly it like it is for now.. It is alot of fun to fly.. Does Precision very well..

Cya,
Frank
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