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Old 10-14-2017, 02:51 PM
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Old 10-14-2017, 03:29 PM
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Ok, gotcha. So, I did some quick reading... it appears it's supposed the clean up the airflow on the inside of any surface when it's deflected. Right?
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Old 10-16-2017, 08:34 AM
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Thanks for sharing Tom, an impressive aircraft.
I hope you and Ron do a build on FG. You guys do an incredible job with the description and photos during the build its like we looking over your shoulder.
Jim
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Old 10-16-2017, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carrid02 View Post
Kurt, Ron, Tom, Cam.... can you speak to the purpose of the "air brake" strip screwed to the trailing edge of the rudder? I've seen foamies and pattern planes use them but have never seen them on a big plane.

-Craig
I'd say 90% of the CARF Extra's had this strip on them back 2004-2008 when I flew IMAC in the SW region. It helped solved some of the tail waggle they experienced.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:26 AM
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Looking at the specs the new Kam plane looks almost identical to the discontinued 43% Carden Extra 300!
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dirt Doctor View Post
Looking at the specs the new Kam plane looks almost identical to the discontinued 43% Carden Extra 300!
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this! Funny how the Carden 300 pro pretty much killed off the 43% and now this comes out. From what I am seeing it looks like the 300 pro wings on a slightly modified 43% extra 300 fuse.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Dennis View Post
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this! Funny how the Garden 300 pro pretty much killed off the 43% and now this comes out. From what I am seeing it looks like the 300 pro wings on a slightly modified 43% extra 300 fuse.
Hi Mark,

Since Kurt was the designer of the 124" 300 Pro, there are some things that look similar especially if you are not seeing them side by side.
But if you read the design rational on the Kam-Aero website you will see the this is a totally new airfoil and there are many other differences as well. Following is a quote from the website:

KAM Aero Design Rationale – In 2015 I started designing a new Extra 300 (Prototype #1) that could be flown more gracefully through slow rolls, would snap cleaner, show clearer stall break in spins, and fly at a more consistent pace than previous planes I have flown. We also wanted to design a plane that was durable and easy to maintain. All dimensions of this plane needed to meet scale aerobatic 10% design rules (following scale rules originally setup at the Tournament of Champions in Las Vegas). Below is a description of how we met these goals:

1. The design incorporated a fuselage with significantly more side area than previous designs I had flown. This allows point rolls and slow rolls to be flown at a slower pace without using significant amounts of rudder. The rolls look clean and axial with less yaw through the roll. As the fuselage becomes larger, the drag also increases. This fuselage design is taller (creating more side area), but not significantly wider which keeps drag from becoming too significant (a problem with some of the airplanes with really large fuselages).

2. To improve stall into autorotation for snaps and spins, a new wing was designed with a different airfoil type at the root and tip (including lower percentage airfoil at the tip) as well as sweep angle. This allows the tip to stall sooner. The result being cleaner breaks in snaps and more defined stall breaks in spins. This could not be accomplished easily (or at all) without the use of the 4-axis hotwire CNC machine. Many designs have identical airfoil type and percent chord at both the root and tip because it is easier to manufacture and does not require an expensive 4-axis hotwire CNC machine to perform.

3. We wanted a plane that had minimal mixing in knife edge, rolling circles, uplines, downlines, etc. Unfortunately, this is rarely accomplished immediately with any new airplane design since there are a variety of different factors that can influence mixing. Thus, Prototype #1 was designed to allow for testing different design adjustments on a single platform. This included a wing that had four (4) different mounting locations through the fuselage (high/forward, high/rear, low/forward, low/rear), different angle of attack, thrust angle, CG, stab location, etc. Prototype #1 was tested during the 2016 season to determine optimum wing location, CG, wing incidence, thrust angle, cg, etc.

4. After all of this testing phase was completed, I designed Prototype #2 (taking into account everything learned from Prototype #1). Prototype #2 has been flown throughout the 2017 season. I love flying Prototype #2 – it tracks beautifully, can be flown slowly and gracefully through rolls/point rolls, snaps cleanly, and presents well with a steady flying pace.

5. We also wanted a plane that would be durable, easy to build, and easy to install components. The CNC router cut motor box is tab-lock plywood construction and builds straight and true. The pipe tunnel is large enough to incorporate any exhaust system size. The main fuselage has a removable ply top plate (8 machine screws hold it on) which allows components to be installed without worry of breaking any cross-braces. With the top plate removed it is possible to reach your arm and hand over 3 feet back under the turtle deck to mount extensions for rudder and elevator servos.


Just to be clear, I do not have any financial ties with Cam Aero, just Kurt and Cam along with Al and Kevin (Jtec), and Tony and Tom (Dalton) are all long time great friends and I wish nothing but the best for all of them and we, myself and Ron love to build any of these top quality competition aircraft for ourselves or any interested customer.
Kurt is at the TAS this week, and Cam is still waiting for a few more parts to come in so it will be a few weeks before we get our first two kits to build and share the process here on FG's.

Tom
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom wheeler View Post
Hi Mark,

Since Kurt was the designer of the 124" 300 Pro, there are some things that look similar especially if you are not seeing them side by side.
But if you read the design rational on the Kam-Aero website you will see the this is a totally new airfoil and there are many other differences as well. Following is a quote from the website:

KAM Aero Design Rationale In 2015 I started designing a new Extra 300 (Prototype #1) that could be flown more gracefully through slow rolls, would snap cleaner, show clearer stall break in spins, and fly at a more consistent pace than previous planes I have flown. We also wanted to design a plane that was durable and easy to maintain. All dimensions of this plane needed to meet scale aerobatic 10% design rules (following scale rules originally setup at the Tournament of Champions in Las Vegas). Below is a description of how we met these goals:

1. The design incorporated a fuselage with significantly more side area than previous designs I had flown. This allows point rolls and slow rolls to be flown at a slower pace without using significant amounts of rudder. The rolls look clean and axial with less yaw through the roll. As the fuselage becomes larger, the drag also increases. This fuselage design is taller (creating more side area), but not significantly wider which keeps drag from becoming too significant (a problem with some of the airplanes with really large fuselages).

2. To improve stall into autorotation for snaps and spins, a new wing was designed with a different airfoil type at the root and tip (including lower percentage airfoil at the tip) as well as sweep angle. This allows the tip to stall sooner. The result being cleaner breaks in snaps and more defined stall breaks in spins. This could not be accomplished easily (or at all) without the use of the 4-axis hotwire CNC machine. Many designs have identical airfoil type and percent chord at both the root and tip because it is easier to manufacture and does not require an expensive 4-axis hotwire CNC machine to perform.

3. We wanted a plane that had minimal mixing in knife edge, rolling circles, uplines, downlines, etc. Unfortunately, this is rarely accomplished immediately with any new airplane design since there are a variety of different factors that can influence mixing. Thus, Prototype #1 was designed to allow for testing different design adjustments on a single platform. This included a wing that had four (4) different mounting locations through the fuselage (high/forward, high/rear, low/forward, low/rear), different angle of attack, thrust angle, CG, stab location, etc. Prototype #1 was tested during the 2016 season to determine optimum wing location, CG, wing incidence, thrust angle, cg, etc.

4. After all of this testing phase was completed, I designed Prototype #2 (taking into account everything learned from Prototype #1). Prototype #2 has been flown throughout the 2017 season. I love flying Prototype #2 it tracks beautifully, can be flown slowly and gracefully through rolls/point rolls, snaps cleanly, and presents well with a steady flying pace.

5. We also wanted a plane that would be durable, easy to build, and easy to install components. The CNC router cut motor box is tab-lock plywood construction and builds straight and true. The pipe tunnel is large enough to incorporate any exhaust system size. The main fuselage has a removable ply top plate (8 machine screws hold it on) which allows components to be installed without worry of breaking any cross-braces. With the top plate removed it is possible to reach your arm and hand over 3 feet back under the turtle deck to mount extensions for rudder and elevator servos.


Just to be clear, I do not have any financial ties with Cam Aero, just Kurt and Cam along with Al and Kevin (Jtec), and Tony and Tom (Dalton) are all long time great friends and I wish nothing but the best for all of them and we, myself and Ron love to build any of these top quality competition aircraft for ourselves or any interested customer.
Kurt is at the TAS this week, and Cam is still waiting for a few more parts to come in so it will be a few weeks before we get our first two kits to build and share the process here on FG's.

Tom
Tom,

Thanks for the reply, Im sorry if my post came off as disrespectful. I am very happy to see new kit designers entering the market. The 43% Carden 300 with the pro wings was something I wished Dennis had done on a large scale. Im glad to see this concept coming back around (larger fuse/thinned down wings) I was never a fan of the pros thinned down missile shaped fuselage, the proportions of this Extra just look right to me.
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:16 PM
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In the decription it was noted that Kurt was looking to slow down the pace a bit and hold a constant speed. Having flown a couple 126 Cardens that is something that I really liked was the slower overall constant speed. Carden isn't offering the 126 anymore so this could be a great alternative for someone wanting to try a larger airframe that is optimized for precision aerobatics. Good luck to you Cam and Kurt.
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:45 PM
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I want one! Possibly my next plane.
Garrett Morrison
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:25 PM
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This looks like a good option for me next year
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Old 10-16-2017, 06:04 PM
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Me too Mark! I want one!
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Old 10-17-2017, 11:10 AM
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Kam-Aero

Subscribed!
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Old 10-17-2017, 11:52 AM
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This plane should be the Crem de la Crem of precision aerobatic planes. Can't wait to see the build.


I want one too but the Dragon Lady says NOT!
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
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This plane should be the Crem de la Crem of precision aerobatic planes. Can't wait to see the build.


I want one too but the Dragon Lady says NOT!
Steve you need one! and i need to get a flight on it! i am sure the Mrs. will understand!!
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