Has anyone noticed your electric batteries do not last long? What I have observed and experienced with my own batteries is a puffy battery is generally caused by either too many amps discharge rate and charging at too high C-rate. A friend of mine likes to charge near the C-rating of the battery. Is the impatience worth the cost of buying batteries more often than you could if you charge at a much lower C-rate? I do not think so. When one feels the need to get more performance by setting the discharge rate higher in the controller, or when one decides that charging the batteries at a higher C-rate saves them a lot of time, those are the very issues that severely shorten the life of the Li-Po Battery. Bottom Line, they get hot and they also get puffy, which gets far more costly than charging at a lower rate. Even though I have one electric and the battery is rated for 20C, I choose to charge it at 2.2 amps. As a result, my battery is cool to the touch during charging. Also, I noticed that if I do not keep the throttle pegged most of the time, which a lot of my friends seem to do, my battery is cool when I land. This is the best combination for getting a lot more use out of a battery than many people do. For those that has a lot of money to spend, then this tip does not matter much. But for those with a very limited budget and cost saving needs, you might just try the above suggestions to limit your expense on new batteries. If you want your Li-Po Batteries to have the highest storage possible, then try breaking them in with low but longer charge rate times.

I always charge at 1C these days. And I always balance charge my batteries.

The thing that got most of my batteries to puff, is storing them at 100% capacity for several months during the winter. I should have put them on storage level when I could foresee a lower usage due to the season change. The very best option would probably be to charge to storage after a day at the field, and then top off to 100% just before a planned day at the field.

Originally Posted by Futterama

I always charge at 1C these days. And I always balance charge my batteries.

The thing that got most of my batteries to puff, is storing them at 100% capacity for several months during the winter. I should have put them on storage level when I could foresee a lower usage due to the season change. The very best option would probably be to charge to storage after a day at the field, and then top off to 100% just before a planned day at the field.

+1 on storage feature on our lipo chargers...I learned the hard way lipos can and do puff when stored fully charged for longer than 5 or so days. Now I always use the storage function after flying, because sometimes I use more than the batt's storage voltage/capacity.

The right way to maintain your Lipo battery, your battery will last longger.
I also read this guide to learn more about lipos.
http://www.genstattu.com/bw/

Every battery has a discharge and a charge C rate. Most charge rates are 1-3 C. Check it out.

I charge most at 2C max. Never discharge past rate and always leave 30% in battery.

My batteries last hundreds of flight. I have a lot of the brands, cheap and expensive.

I always charge at 1C, I know many that do 4 and 5C but it takes it toll.
Jeff

Don't charge over 2c, don't expect a 30c battery to deliver 30c, don't go below 30% discharge, always balance charge, always store at 3. to 3.9 volts, if there hot they are being abused, if they have puffed they are being abused/not up to task. If one cell is lower than others consistently take the hint and get rid.

Originally Posted by raydar

Don't charge over 2c, don't expect a 30c battery to deliver 30c, don't go below 30% discharge, always balance charge, always store at 3. to 3.9 volts, if there hot they are being abused, if they have puffed they are being abused/not up to task. If one cell is lower than others consistently take the hint and get rid.

You shouldn't tell people inaccurate things. Every battery is different. You must go by what the manufacturer has recommended. They spend tons of money on R&D. Some batteries will not accept a 2c charge rate and some of the new batteries can safely be charged at 5c . If a battery says 30c then it should do 30c thats why theres a constant c rating and a peak c rating. The peak can only be maintained briefly some cases 10secs up to 60secs ive seen. I always try to run my batteries down to 3.8 maybe 3.7 to 3.68 volts per cell no lower while operating something. My charger has a analyze mode which takes the volts to 3.4. my batteries will never see below 3.6 unless during the analyzing cycle. I think balance charging and storing at 3.85v goes without saying. Batteries should not puff and in my opinion should not be used in planes, helis, or drones if they are. Prob nothing will happen but puffy means something is not normal and Anything that can fall out of the air and potentially kill someone you shouldnt take chances. Save those puffy batteries for a ground based vechicle rc trucks and cars or equipment ie fpv goggles or use puffy batteries to check the plane out before takeoff and then switch to a good battery to fly. Its not hard at all to gather the information needed to know if your battery has what it takes to run something. Example let's say you have a eflite carbon z splendor. Which i have one for sale fyi. The website says it has a 60 amp ESC in it and it recommends using a 6S 3200MaH 30c battery. So that battery 3200Mah=3.2a*30c=96amps. So that battery can constantly put out 96amps. More than that for a certain time period. So 96 amps will run that 60 amp esc just fine, but wait the esc has a peak amps as well, not going to look it up, but lets say its 100a peak for 10 sec well thats where the batteries peak c for 10 secs should help with that demand. So you see the manufactor recommends a battery that constantly puts out (what somewhere around 30% more than required ) which means heat should be low since your not running it at max constant amps constantly. Hope that helps paint a better picture.

Originally Posted by AddictedToFlying

... If a battery says 30c then it should do 30c thats why theres a constant c rating and a peak c rating. The peak can only be maintained briefly some cases 10secs up to 60secs ive seen.
...

It would be really nice if that was true, but it’s not. Lots of excellent testing and data in this thread:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...st-Comparisons

Bottom line is the vast majority of batteries can’t come close to their constant C rating in real life - some of them physically self destruct even at lesser loads.

Originally Posted by raydar

Don't charge over 2c, don't expect a 30c battery to deliver 30c, don't go below 30% discharge, always balance charge, always store at 3. to 3.9 volts, if there hot they are being abused, if they have puffed they are being abused/not up to task. If one cell is lower than others consistently take the hint and get rid.

I consistantly do the opposite of this. You should also look at the IR of each cell and pack. I have packs that are 4 years old, over 500 cycles on them, charged at over 5C, run down to 3V a couple of times, stored at 3.8V, and they do get warm. These packs are consistantly around the 1 mohm resistance/per cell. These are 45C packs. While, I do not believe in the Discharge rating of the pack, choosing the right cell and configuration that works for your application, is a must.

On my 6S 5000s, I fly 4 mins of mixed high throttle/mid throttle in a 6S 90mm jet. If I were to fly to the 3 min mark, I would be at 30%. I can drain a pack in less than 3 mins, at WFO. Take the heli guys as well, motor runs a constant speed until you load the head, and the gov allows for more rpm. Packs get warmer as amperage goes up.

Originally Posted by AddictedToFlying

You shouldn't tell people inaccurate things. Every battery is different. You must go by what the manufacturer has recommended. They spend tons of money on R&D. Some batteries will not accept a 2c charge rate and some of the new batteries can safely be charged at 5c . If a battery says 30c then it should do 30c thats why theres a constant c rating and a peak c rating. The peak can only be maintained briefly some cases 10secs up to 60secs ive seen. I always try to run my batteries down to 3.8 maybe 3.7 to 3.68 volts per cell no lower while operating something. My charger has a analyze mode which takes the volts to 3.4. my batteries will never see below 3.6 unless during the analyzing cycle. I think balance charging and storing at 3.85v goes without saying. Batteries should not puff and in my opinion should not be used in planes, helis, or drones if they are. Prob nothing will happen but puffy means something is not normal and Anything that can fall out of the air and potentially kill someone you shouldnt take chances. Save those puffy batteries for a ground based vechicle rc trucks and cars or equipment ie fpv goggles or use puffy batteries to check the plane out before takeoff and then switch to a good battery to fly. Its not hard at all to gather the information needed to know if your battery has what it takes to run something. Example let's say you have a eflite carbon z splendor. Which i have one for sale fyi. The website says it has a 60 amp ESC in it and it recommends using a 6S 3200MaH 30c battery. So that battery 3200Mah=3.2a*30c=96amps. So that battery can constantly put out 96amps. More than that for a certain time period. So 96 amps will run that 60 amp esc just fine, but wait the esc has a peak amps as well, not going to look it up, but lets say its 100a peak for 10 sec well thats where the batteries peak c for 10 secs should help with that demand. So you see the manufactor recommends a battery that constantly puts out (what somewhere around 30% more than required ) which means heat should be low since your not running it at max constant amps constantly. Hope that helps paint a better picture.

Oh my, or in the words of the late Dave Neihaus "My Oh My"

you sir, are an optimist.

Today's C ratings on packs are a complete farce. Every pack vendor is trying to one up the other guy and this is why we have extremely high C ratings on batteries that would absolutely self destruct if they came close to delivering their "labeled" C rating.

You also state that

You must go by what the manufacturer has recommended. They spend tons of money on R&D

most battery vendors are relabled OEM packs from a handful of chinese factories.

They do not spend alot of money on R&D, they spend alot of money on Marketing.

And yes, some batteries are listed as capable of a higher than 1 c charge rate, but the title of this thread is "how to make your LiPo Batteries last longer."

One sure fire way to make your batteries last longer is to charge them at 1C, keep them at storage charge of 3.7x v when not in use and never ever use them at such a high amp draw to where they get really hot.

Originally Posted by Cryhavoc38

Oh my, or in the words of the late Dave Neihaus "My Oh My"

you sir, are an optimist.

Today's C ratings on packs are a complete farce. Every pack vendor is trying to one up the other guy and this is why we have extremely high C ratings on batteries that would absolutely self destruct if they came close to delivering their "labeled" C rating.

You also state that



most battery vendors are relabled OEM packs from a handful of chinese factories.

They do not spend alot of money on R&D, they spend alot of money on Marketing.

And yes, some batteries are listed as capable of a higher than 1 c charge rate, but the title of this thread is "how to make your LiPo Batteries last longer."

One sure fire way to make your batteries last longer is to charge them at 1C, keep them at storage charge of 3.7x v when not in use and never ever use them at such a high amp draw to where they get really hot.

+1.

Using a 4,000 mah 30C battery as an example:

That battery has a total capacity of 4,000 milliamp hours, or 4 amp hours. That means that it should be able to produce one hour of power while delivering 4 amps before it's drained to 3 volts per cell. Let's say you want to be nice to the battery and stop when it's reached 20%-25% of its capacity, around 3.7 volts per cell. That means you can draw 3 amps for one hour.

It also has 3 voltage measurements we use, which are merely inferences into how much it is charged and/or discharged at any given time. Voltage is easier to measure in a static snapshot than capacity. For the lipos we use, that is 3 volts, 3.7 volts, and 4,2 volts per cell. Each cell should NEVER go below 3 or above 4.2. 3.7 is the nominal voltage, or middle.

Practically every battery has a capacity/voltage curve. When the voltage drops to near the bottom, there is not much capacity left to drain. When it approaches the top, there is not much capacity left to add. This applies to the amount of instantaneous current it can produce too.

If you go by the battery's flat out C-rating multiplied by 4,000 mah, it would lead you to believe you can pull 120 amps continuously until it's depleted. The problem is that every battery ever made has a certain amount of internal resistance. Put simply, every battery has some measurable difficulty in charging and discharging and that difficulty gets turned into heat. It also increases with each use. That's one of the reasons your measured voltage goes down the second you plug in a load.

The lighter the load compared to the power deliverable by the battery, the less it will drop when you load it down. The heavier the load, the more it will drop, and the more the 'power curve' I mentioned before begins to come into play. As the battery begins to drain, the loaded voltage begins to fall, and once it reaches 3 volts per cell, you'd either back off the load/amps your asking of it or you'll likely damage the cell. To see the reverse of this in action, watch the charge current of your charger and the voltage of the cell. As it approaches 4.2 volts per cell, the charger backs off the current to keep the voltage in line.

Hook a voltmeter, ammeter, and mah meter to that battery and tell me how long you get 120 amps out of it until it hits 3 volts per cell. It won't be long, and neither will the life of that pack.

The saving grace here though is that we almost never pull that much on a plane for more than a few seconds. Regardless though, C ratings are maximums the cell can take without immediate damage to them. Continuously push them to their C rating each time, and you'll shorten their usable life. There are a certain amount of amp hours each battery can deliver both at one time, and throughout its life. You can pull them out all at once, or a little at a time. The choice is yours.

Finally, remember your battery doesn't store electricity like your fuel tank does. It's a chemical reaction that occurs when a completed circuit allows electrons to move from the anode (-) to the cathode (+). In rechargeable batteries, the chemical reaction can be reversed

Yes i like what you guys are saying and my answer was short compared to you guys. Yes of course if you use a battery at its constant C rating it's going to drastically lower the battery life. That's why in my example the battery is rated over what the ESC pulls. Keeping the battery from Heating and extending the life. Heat equals shorten life as well as many things over voltage under voltage charge rate storage volts ect. Ok so I guess you guys are suggesting testing was done and battery manufacturers are falsely advertising there batteries and we all should sue?
But above i wanted to make a point to that guy not to tell people to charge at 2c. A. Because some cant do 2c charge and B. Thats not the best way to extend battery life