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Old 05-14-2007, 06:53 PM
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Rolling Harrier help

I would like to learn how to do a rolling harrier. Does anybody have any pointers on how to do so. One of my concerns is throttle management. Do you goose the throttle at any time or keep it constant? Looking to add this to my limited bag of tricks.

Thanks
Smokey
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:11 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

There is no easy path to rolling harrier, Practice is paramount. Now that that is out of the way. Here are some simple regimes to practice that can help before one attempts to jumps straight into rolling harriers. I started with the point roll, and slow controlled roll. These two manuevers are hard to master, or even do remotely well. I say practice those first with good control then try simple "wings level" high alfa harriers, slowing the model down etc.... This will help you develope the throttle management you were concerned about. After that, try to put it all together. Its going to take time, so don't worry if after a year+ you are still struggling. -Wind- helps with practice to.

If you really want to be good, practice everything in both directions right from the start. Develope a good balanced practice disipline.
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:20 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

I think this maneuver is every bit as difficult to learn as hovering. I would recommend doing a lot of time on a flight sim. Find the direction that is most comfortable to roll and practice maintaining a slow roll. After you are able to get your roll to keep a straight line it will be easy to progress into a harrier roll. As with any maneuver nothing can be done without burning plenty of fuel.
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:31 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

I have no problem doing harriers. I am also starting to put some sim time on the manuever. When I go thru the sequece in my head. I'm thinking i will loose airspeed when rolling and have to goose the throttle. Is this correct?

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Old 05-14-2007, 07:39 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

You MUST MUST MUST goose the throttle on and off. the way I learned how to do rolling harriers was just starting off using aileron and elevator only, I would go full right aileron and at the given points add down and up elevator, this looks very similar to a rolling harrier but isn't as smooth. then I moved on to adding rudder inputs. All it is , is sim time. you get on the sim, and the inputs become automatic.
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:47 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

I have found on certain planes they require more throttle management to keep a good roll rate. The best time I have found to practice is about 15 mph wind. Point the plane into the wind and keep the throttle high enough to harrier with little to no forward speed. Start a roll and you will be able to know when to bump the throttle. I try to bump the throttle when I am upright, is the easiest place for me to maintain control. (up elevator=throttle bump, rudder, down elevator, rudder, etc, etc)
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:50 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

I learned using aileron and elevator only. After a short time the rudder will start to become natural. Also, what surprises alot of people is how little deflection of the elevator and rudder is required once the plane is at the right attitude. You will also have to use the throttle to control altitude. Also I bet you will find that is harder to harrier roll in a straight line that it is to make circles, It is for me anyway. It seems like the plane naturally wants to turn away from the direction of the roll, (rolling left, plane turns right) although it could be my timing.
Brian
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:54 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
I learned using aileron and elevator only. After a short time the rudder will start to become natural. Also, what surprises alot of people is how little deflection of the elevator and rudder is required once the plane is at the right attitude. You will also have to use the throttle to control altitude. Also I bet you will find that is harder to harrier roll in a straight line that it is to make circles, It is for me anyway. It seems like the plane naturally wants to turn away from the direction of the roll, (rolling left, plane turns right) although it could be my timing.
Brian
we must have very similar fingers or something? haha everything you said fits my description.
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Old 05-14-2007, 08:10 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

I have made ugly attempts to do rolling circles. I agree that its harder to make it go in a straight line. I cheat on my rolling circles thou. I just use ailerons and rudder only. My plane wants to go into a circle when i do this.

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Old 05-14-2007, 08:16 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
I learned using aileron and elevator only. After a short time the rudder will start to become natural. Also, what surprises alot of people is how little deflection of the elevator and rudder is required once the plane is at the right attitude. You will also have to use the throttle to control altitude. Also I bet you will find that is harder to harrier roll in a straight line that it is to make circles, It is for me anyway. It seems like the plane naturally wants to turn away from the direction of the roll, (rolling left, plane turns right) although it could be my timing.
Brian
I have also found this to be correct. Found the turn problem to be up elevator timing.
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Old 05-14-2007, 08:26 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Quote:
I'm thinking i will loose airspeed when rolling and have to goose the throttle. Is this correct?
I wouldn't focus so much on airpseed as much as I would focus on maintianing angle of attack.
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Old 05-14-2007, 08:53 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Here you go . . .

https://www.flyinggiants.com/gallery...00&ppuser=8935

I do a figure eight with the left stick
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Old 05-14-2007, 08:55 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

I learned using the instructional video from the old Flying ****** site. The key is learning a rythym of the sticks then fine tuning it to go where you want. The main thing the old video showed you was that starting out you can combine the rudder and elevator inputs. So for example, you start rolling left and input up elevator and right rudder at the same time. As the plane rolls inverted, you switch to down elevator and left rudder. This will not make a very pretty roller yet but it trains your fingers for the rythym. As it starts to click, you then begin to stagger the rudder and elevator inputs. In other words, you gradually start giving elevator and rudder more individually. Even once you get it down, your rudder and elevator inputs will be feathering in and out.

Of course this all made more sense with the instructional video as they showed the stick inputs on the transmitter while showing the plane and telling you what was going on. I may have this video saved somewhere if someone wants it.
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Old 05-14-2007, 08:59 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Practicing point rolls and slow rolls will help. When I was first learning them, I would cheat and use rudder only. You can actually do a halfass-decent rolling harrier with just rudder on some planes. A buddy of mine has been trying to learn them elevator only and it isn't really working out. I would suggest trying rudder only and see how it works out for you. It depends on what you 'see' for points of reference, though. I 'see' knife edge to knife edge as my point of reference. Once start to get comfortable with the timing you can start introducing the elevator. Throttle management will come last. Throttle is used mostly to maintain altitude, angle of attack and to provide an extra blast of air over the surfaces when needed.


Once you get comfortable with them, like all manuevers, it becomes subconcious and you no longer think about the inputs. I can drive them all around wherever I want rolling to the left. Rolling to right I'm still a little limited. I don't feel comfortable rolling to the right down on the deck, but rolling to the left is no problem. Harriers of all sorts are my favorite manuevers.
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Old 05-14-2007, 09:03 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Keep working on the sim with flying speed rolls. It's all timming, learn to roll in one direction and make the plane turn right, left, and loop. Once you get the timming, slow down, point the nose up and start rolling. You will be able to drive it anywere.

Tim
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