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Old 05-14-2007, 09:53 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Cool video. Thanks. Is there a way to break it down and do a step by step. Like how much elevator to input at a certain point of the rotation and when to do it.
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:34 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Burn gas my man, burn gas.
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:39 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Very effective if done this way. I have seen too many well executed rolling lines otherwise. Thats not the objective however.


Start with a controlled high alpha harrier.
PRACTICE STEERING AROUND. OVER AND OVER.

Next high alpha knife edge harrier. Slow high angle of attack.
PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

Next inverted high alpha harrier

Followed by opposite knife edge harrier

Finally upright again


Do this several thousand times each. Do not attempt to meld them together until those priciples are mastered

When it is monkey proof, then and only then add them together in sequence. Only at this point however hold each position for several seconds. A simulator helps if you slow the frame rate down. Master the inputs. Finally speed things up. Pulse the throttle to maintain ATTITUDE. Remember high alpha SLOOWWW rolls are what we are looking for. Try differant directions.

Done. Takes a while . Thats all I did for months. Now it is muscle memory. Just like riding a bike.

Damn, now I have to learn how to land
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Old 05-14-2007, 11:13 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Mark Leeseberg did an instructional video on the rolling harrier that explained the turning aspects of the manuever. It talked about actually turning the airplane with the elevator which is what is happenieng when you apply enough elevator at the right rythum to control the turn along with throttle pulsing rythum.

Leeseberg also said not to get discouraged he said he spent some 1000 hours or so perfecting the technique. Of course if your like me it will probably take some 2000 hours before I get perfected.

I try to spend at least 4 to 5 hrs a week on the sim just trying to stay up with it.. but don't mind me I'm 47 years old too!!

Ronster
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Old 05-14-2007, 11:21 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Quote:
Like how much elevator to input at a certain point of the rotation and when to do it.
This is really the part that can't be taught. A rolling harrier is a very fluid aerobatic manuever where conditions are changing. learning new manuevers to a large extent is a form of discovery, and there are no easy ways to bypass practice. As far as inputs, you know what to do, but the "timing" as others have mentioned can't really be taught. you have to discover it.
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Old 05-15-2007, 02:09 AM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Guys sorry to interrupt, But im learning harrier rolls too, at the same time im practicing my point and slow rolls, my questionis how do i while rolling, bring the Nose up or turn right or left, all these while rolling, i think you guys get what i mean right?

thanks guys,
cheers..
vin
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Old 05-15-2007, 02:24 AM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Hey Smokey, here's how I learned. This is pretty much my first season flying and I'm already into giant scale. of course, My Gen. grew up with video games so it wasn't such a big deal. I used to do all my rolling circles like you--with aileron and rudder only. When I started trying out rolling harriers here is what I struggled with, in order:
1. stick movements--you have to THINK about the stick movements and do them over and over until they become subconscious. that is, the movement from, say, to the left, of left aileron, right rudder, down elevator, left rudder, up elevator, etc etc etc. practice them on your Tx and then on the SIM. I found that I'd get frustrated at the sim until I learned the stick inputs.

2. keeping the plane pointing in the direction I wanted it to go--after I learned the general stick inputs, I found that the next thing in my learning curve was keeping the plane going in one direction. for me, a straight line was the toughtest, as circling around seemed easier. after you learn the general stick imputs and INGRAIN them into your subconscious, you will AUTOMATICALLY begin how to get a feel for keeping the plane going straight. maybe a bit more elevator this turn, maybe a bit less right rudder, etc.

3. Keeping the plane in high alpha. what I learned is that here, throttle management is the key. I had trouble with using the rudder and punching the throttle at the same time. again, i had to actually THINK about it, memorize it, then bring it to the Tx. I think that the most difficult thing for most 3D maneuvers is the managing of the throttle. Ultimately, the height of the airplane will be dictated by a combination of degree of stick inputs and, for the most part, throttle.

I found that by memorizing the stick inputs and the general idea of rolling harriers, the rest came mostly as a result of pure sim time. that is, I progressively learned to keep them straight while learning to manage the throttle, and this worked for me. I'd just go in and put a ton of time on the sim and don't think too much about how to practice what you're going to practice--just go do it, and after a while you'll see that they will start looking nicer and nicer due to practice. when you take this to the field, the results will be awesome.

I did that on the sim over the winter. I used FS ONE. needless to say, I had to press 'reset' a ton of times, but now can do the sweetest harrier rolls to both sides and have them go where I want them to with the real planes.

Like everyone said, just practice man, you'll get it

Cheers,

Izzy
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Old 05-15-2007, 02:26 AM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Oh, and if you learn the stick inputs for GOOD harrier rolls, point rolls and slow rolls won't be a prob.
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Old 05-15-2007, 02:32 AM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickkerr82 View Post
Guys sorry to interrupt, But im learning harrier rolls too, at the same time im practicing my point and slow rolls, my questionis how do i while rolling, bring the Nose up or turn right or left, all these while rolling, i think you guys get what i mean right?

thanks guys,
cheers..
vin

Vin, turning will come as a result of giving the 'turning' input a bit more on the sticks than the rest. for example, say you're coming from the right, rolling to the left, and doing a clockwise rolling circle. so you start your roll to the left and maintain your roll speed. as the plane goes into KE (canopy toward you) you will need right rudder to maintain altitude while using down elevator to turn the plane away from you (picture all of this in your mind). as the plane turns into inverted, left rudder is now used to turn the plane away from you, while still using down elevator to maintain altitude. as the plane turns its belly toward you, you keep the left rudder to maintain altitude while using up elevator to turn the plane away from you. as the plane is level again, you keep up elevator to maintain altitude, while using right rudder to turn the plane away from you.

Just THINK about it--imagine it in your mind and memorize the stick inputs--you'd be surprised what you can do if you take the time to think about it. Maybe make a practice plane if it will help you visualize it.

Cheers,

Izzy
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Old 05-15-2007, 03:14 AM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Thank Izzy i got what you are trying to say but what about when doing normal rolls, How do you turn the plane when doing normal slow rolls or bring the plane from a level slow roll to a upright roll.... so what i mean is im rolling but only the direction is changing?
Hope i not a bore!!
vin
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Old 05-15-2007, 05:00 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Thanks for everybodys help. I will try to have more sim time. Maybe if i sleep with the TX in my hand, the Rolling Harrier fairy god mother will grant my wish.

Smokey
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:13 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

I use to sleep with TX in my hands but the flying fairy god mother just made me crash more
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:45 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Quote:
Originally Posted by topgun130643 View Post
I use to sleep with TX in my hands but the flying fairy god mother just made me crash more
I think i see your problem. I dont think you are suppose to sleep while flying an airplane.

Smokey
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Old 05-15-2007, 08:17 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

Now I get it
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Old 05-15-2007, 08:34 PM
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Re: Rolling Harrier help

only way to learn this maneuvor is at the field burning gas and more gas. Once that has been done burn even more gas. About the time everyone starts to tell you to learn something new, you will be able to change it up with a rolling elevator, or a rolling harrier spin.

The key is still burn more gas!!!!!!!
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