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Old 03-05-2010, 12:08 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

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Is there anyway I might be able to put in a request for touching on something in the next clinic??? I don't know why, someone may be able to clear it up for me. But, for some reason every time I go belly in I get disoriented. I can harrier straight towards me with no issue. But, when I go into a hover and start to torque roll I keep falling out with the belly in. Like I said just asking if anyone can clear that up for me.

Also great clinic?
I have the same problem. Also with the inverted harriers. The rudder being backwards.LOL I think it is just like when you first started flying and when you flew toward your self you struggled. I think our problem is when still in a harrier the plane has forward motion and is still controlled the same, just with more aggressive inputs. And unless you are turning your not really useing the rudder. Once the nose is straight up now the fun begins. The rudder and the elevator are essentially backwards and we have to start to add some down occasionally to keep it hovering. So more inputs needed once hovering, two of them are essentially backwards with the belly toward us. I think it means we just need more practice to embed it in our brains just like we did when we were just flying circles and had to work on flying toward ourselves. Practice practice practice.
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Old 03-05-2010, 12:20 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

Nice and helpful as always, Thanks! Having fun in the Hobby with the wife is something that has a great value. thanks for being a good example of that too.
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Old 03-05-2010, 12:21 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

Another Great one. keep them rolling bone doc
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Old 03-05-2010, 12:44 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

Quote:
Originally Posted by stommerd27 View Post
I have the same problem. Also with the inverted harriers. The rudder being backwards.LOL I think it is just like when you first started flying and when you flew toward your self you struggled. I think our problem is when still in a harrier the plane has forward motion and is still controlled the same, just with more aggressive inputs. And unless you are turning your not really useing the rudder. Once the nose is straight up now the fun begins. The rudder and the elevator are essentially backwards and we have to start to add some down occasionally to keep it hovering. So more inputs needed once hovering, two of them are essentially backwards with the belly toward us. I think it means we just need more practice to embed it in our brains just like we did when we were just flying circles and had to work on flying toward ourselves. Practice practice practice.
Good points, thanks for the reply. Trust me I am burning as much gas as my new 6mo old baby girl will let me. Can't get out to the field as much but I take advantage of what I can.
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:13 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

Someone gave me hint for when the plane turns belly in....
for the brief second your brain isnt sure which way to move the rudder stick....
let your eyes look down to the tail itself and point the rudder stick the way you want the tail to go.....
then , as it torques around revert your brain back to the old tried and true orientation.

This technique has saved many a ooops for me on my foamies.
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Old 03-05-2010, 02:15 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecanpatch View Post
Someone gave me hint for when the plane turns belly in....
for the brief second your brain isnt sure which way to move the rudder stick....
let your eyes look down to the tail itself and point the rudder stick the way you want the tail to go.....
then , as it torques around revert your brain back to the old tried and true orientation.

This technique has saved many a ooops for me on my foamies.
Yep!! I knew that but forgot to mention that.
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Old 03-05-2010, 03:19 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

Thanks for the kind words guys.

The reason why I recommended hovering with belly into the wind first is because that will take the same stick input as an upright harrier, which most of us have a better chance of doing naturally. Once you get better with your inverted harrier, you can try hovering with the canopy into the wind. Just as inverted harrier tends to be more stable than upright harrier, the same is true for "inverted" hovering. But the stick input will feel backwards though until your inverted harrier becomes more natural.

As for hovering belly in, if you can harrier toward yourself, you've got the starting point for hovering belly in. What you need to do is to consciously increase your AOA when you're doing the harrier. The higher the AOA, the more rudder input you're going to have to put in, which in turn, will make the stick movement needed for hovering belly in (as well as doing Torque rolling) more intuitive.

HTH,

Josh
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Old 03-05-2010, 03:21 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

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Love that vid....need more...any comment on flying and hovering at the altitudes?

Also noteworthy to tell the newbie as they come completely off of the harrier and loose all the help from the wing that it is necessary to go up more on the power to keep it there. Once I got that idea it helped me with my anticipation on power application.
And this is precisely why I recommend coming into a hover attitude from an upright harrier. People who try to enter a hover just by flying vertical, or pulling into a wall usually struggle with staying on the throttle (unless you know how to hover already). The tendency is to UNDER-throttle, which then cause the plane to flop.

As for different altitude, at higher altitude, everything does speed up a tad, but nothing that's not unmanageable. If you fly electric, just prop up to compensate for the thinner air. For gassers.... get a bigger engine .
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Old 03-05-2010, 03:24 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

nice job Josh
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Old 03-05-2010, 03:25 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleA View Post
Is there anyway I might be able to put in a request for touching on something in the next clinic??? I don't know why, someone may be able to clear it up for me. But, for some reason every time I go belly in I get disoriented. I can harrier straight towards me with no issue. But, when I go into a hover and start to torque roll I keep falling out with the belly in. Like I said just asking if anyone can clear that up for me.

Also great clinic?

Other folks have made great suggestions already here. But here's one more tip that can possibly help. When you're learning torque rolling, make sure that you STAY on POWER. If anything, it's better to have the plane rise a bit as you're doing your TR. Once you get better, then you can work on keeping the altitude level.

The other tip is to focus ONLY on the ATTITUDE of the plane (ie. pointing straight vertical). Let it drift if it needs be.
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Old 03-05-2010, 03:36 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

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Originally Posted by AllBread View Post
Nicely done -Josh!

I think that one key aspect that wasn't covered is radio set-up - mainly expo. I'm curious to know how much expo you generally run on your high rates for hovering and if it's different than the amount that you use for other 3D maneuvers (such as rolling harriers). You spoke of finding your rhythm and I've found (through experimenting with my expo settings) that your rhythm is largely dictated by the amount of expo that you are using. I'm still trying to get it dialed in and have been using my three way switch on my JR to do one low rate, one high rate with lots of expo (70 - 75%) and then the same high rates with less expo (65% or so) just so I can switch back and forth and see what more or less expo does for me. I'm sure you've done plenty of experimenting in that regards - care to chime in on the topic?
EXPO

Expo again is a personal choice, but here's how you tune your expo. It's largely determined by how much your fingers prefer to move around. Bigger movements, bigger expo, smaller movements, smaller expo.

Regardless though, here's how you tune your expo:
1. If you find that you're behind and having to catch up in your stick movements, or if the plane's response to your stick movements feel sluggish, this tells me that your control surface is not moving as fast for the distance your fingers are moving.... DECREASE your expo. (you could also try speeding up your rhythm to see if this cures it as well)

2. If however, you look like you're over controlling, and your plane behaves "wildly," try INCREASING your expo.

3. When making changes to your expo, try changing by 10% at a time. That way, you can tell whether or not the changes are working for you. From there, fine tune until you get just the right expo for you.

As for my own setup, here's what I run when I had my DX7
Ailerons: 45% (I leave it on high rates most of the time)
Elevator: 30% low, 69-65% high (low for "precision" / KE stuff, high for high alpha stuff)
Rudder: 75%

Since switching to Aurora 9, I'm having to add about 10% more expo. Whether that's due to the radio feeling more "connected", or just a different expo algorithm, I'm not sure.
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Old 03-05-2010, 04:17 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

Thank you for the video and radio setting.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:52 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

Good Job Doc. Are you wearing rubber gloves in the snow video?
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:40 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

Bone Doc, great tool for the guy's! As always nice job!
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:57 PM
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Re: BoneDoc's 3D Clinic: Hovering 101 - Finding Your Rhythm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecanpatch View Post
Someone gave me hint for when the plane turns belly in....
for the brief second your brain isnt sure which way to move the rudder stick....
let your eyes look down to the tail itself and point the rudder stick the way you want the tail to go.....
then , as it torques around revert your brain back to the old tried and true orientation.

This technique has saved many a ooops for me on my foamies.
Another trick which I have been taught for belly in hovering is to push the rudder stick towards the dropped wing just as you would for ailerons when flying towards yourself.
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