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Old 04-26-2007, 04:56 AM
mfuess is offline
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Bedford Texas
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202 Posts
Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stainless Skills View Post
Oh BTW, The engine still holds RPM and full throttle for 20 secconds when it is warmed up. So the low end has not leaned the high too much, yet. The "yet" is what I am worried about and is what is keeping me from leaning it more.

The engine runs great in the air, it just 4 strokes right above idle.
OK, thats a tough one to get rid of. What you are experiencing is very common. You have some choices though. You can continue leaning the lowend until the "four stroking" is gone, BUT you will have to richen up the highend slightly to keep it from going too lean. Your "other" option is to lower your float lever slightly. Of the two choices, I prefer working with the lowend.

If it's your float lever causing the off-idle "four stroking", there is a way to check this, and it's not too complicated. Completely close off the highend and start the engine. Let it warm up, and then throttle up just off idle, maybe 2500/3000 RPM. IF it's "four stroking" try to lean it out "SLIGHTLY". If the "four stroking' does not go away, the Float diaphragm lever is too high, or your check valve is leaking.

IF it doesn't "four stroke", then you can begin to open up the highend maybe 1/4 turn at a time until you regain peak power. If the "four stroking" returns, then you will have to adjust the float lever.
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Old 04-26-2007, 06:35 AM
mfuess is offline
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Doo It! Doo It!
Bedford Texas
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202 Posts
Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stainless Skills View Post
Oh BTW, The engine still holds RPM and full throttle for 20 secconds when it is warmed up. So the low end has not leaned the high too much, yet. The "yet" is what I am worried about and is what is keeping me from leaning it more.

The engine runs great in the air, it just 4 strokes right above idle.
Stainless, Skills,

I went back through a bunch of my field notes on similar problems some people were having. In some cases, we were not able to totally get rid of the off-idle "four stroking" without doing a major carb overhaul. But, if the engine(s) ran very good overall, we left them alone. At our airfield about 98% of the gassers "four stroke" at some throttle position. It hasn't been a problem, except for those that really had a bad tune.
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Last edited by mfuess; 04-26-2007 at 08:38 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-27-2007, 11:13 AM
Rocky V. is offline
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Joined Jan 2006
84 Posts
Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

Hey Mark,
Thanks for all the good info.
Is it better to do these ground adjustments with cowl on, or does it matter ?
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Old 04-27-2007, 12:24 PM
khan is offline
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Gettin' Lower!
Joined Jan 2006
64 Posts
Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

Thanks for clarifying!! This confused me a lot. And thanks for all you inputs!!! We should save and print them all.
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Old 04-27-2007, 01:33 PM
JimC-MD is offline
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Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfuess View Post
ALL of my Tech Site Documents get updated regurlarly with new information and new illustrations. And, I copyright them for the current year they are UPDATED. This particular document was actually written in 2005, by me. I took all those Walbro photo illusrations as well. I have ALL the original documentation and illustrations dating back to its origin in 2005, as well as the UPDATED documents. I even have the original MS Word files I created this document in.

I spent 100's of personal hours creating this stuff for the benefit of all RC modelers. Especially those new to RC Modeling. I want you guys to benefit from my 37 years of RC modeling and my extensive gas engine expertise. But, I don't want anyone taking or editing my material without my permission. I don't think that's asking too much... do you?

All someone has to do is e-mail me for permission to link up to a particular Tech Page and I'll furnish the page link WITHOUT the Greater Southwest Areo Modelers advertising frames.

Here is the main GSWAM Tech Site address: http://tech.flygsw.org/

You can link up to my Tech Site and ALL the Tech pages YOU want! That's what its there for...

But please allow me due credit for my VOLUNTARY HARD WORK for you guys.
Mark,

I hope you understand why I asked the question. This method of sharing information will raise all kinds of issues now and in the future. You obviously have a good handle on this stuff based on your comments in this thread. It is too bad that it took this issue to bring you onto the forum full bore. Welcome.

Thanks for your contributions.
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Old 04-27-2007, 05:02 PM
TrikeFlyer is offline
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Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

In your post you say to tune the Hi needle to peak RPM and NOT ot back it off 200 RPM or make richer.

I am confused as this is opposite of everything I have read on tuning a gasser. What is the reasoning behind this???

Thanks - Trike
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Old 04-27-2007, 10:19 PM
mfuess is offline
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Bedford Texas
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Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

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Originally Posted by TrikeFlyer View Post
In your post you say to tune the Hi needle to peak RPM and NOT ot back it off 200 RPM or make richer.

I am confused as this is opposite of everything I have read on tuning a gasser. What is the reasoning behind this???

Thanks - Trike
This is very simple. Your engine uses a carb that has a fuel "Pump". Regardless where the tank is located, and regardless how much (or how little) fuel is in the tank your fuel to air ratio does not change. Because it doesn't change, there's no point in having the engine run less than optimum performance. IE: rich. Your carb (when properly tuned) will maintain that same exact air/fuel ratio in the air as well as on the ground. So, setting your topend needle a little on the rich side serves no purpose, except robbing you of it's peak horsepower.

I know some people "think" it's better to run a gas engine slightly rich, but all you're really doing is creating more carbon in your cylinder, more carbon on your piston, and lots more carbon in your exhaust. Remember, this isn't a GLOW ENGINE so don't tune it as though it is.
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Old 04-28-2007, 05:45 AM
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Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

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Originally Posted by STR8HUCKIN View Post
I dont think you would run any engine day after day wound all they way out to it's peak unless your sponsored or just really dont care...
Peaking an engine Doesn't Mean blowing up your engine or wearing it out. It means your engine is running at peak EFFICIENCY. An engine that is "peaked" to it's best possible tune, runs clean (minimum carbon), no sparkplug fouling, and it produces the HP it was designed to produce.

I have engines that have well over 600 flights on them, and they run as good today as they did the day they I bought them. In other words; a well tuned engine runs better and lasts longer.
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Old 04-28-2007, 05:57 AM
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Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

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Originally Posted by JimC-MD View Post
Mark,

I hope you understand why I asked the question. This method of sharing information will raise all kinds of issues now and in the future. You obviously have a good handle on this stuff based on your comments in this thread. It is too bad that it took this issue to bring you onto the forum full bore. Welcome.

Thanks for your contributions.
Jim,

I just wandered into this forum and stumbled across my stuff. I stay very busy keeping my Tech Site up to date, then at the field I spend a lot of time working on peoples carbs & engines. I also evaluate new engines, and do glow to gas conversions now and then. But I'll try to visit regularly to see what's brewing here. You can always e-mail me, and visit my Tech Site.
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Old 04-28-2007, 07:36 AM
mfuess is offline
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Bedford Texas
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Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky V. View Post
Hey Mark,
Thanks for all the good info.
Is it better to do these ground adjustments with cowl on, or does it matter ?
It shouldn't matter, but it does matter on some airplanes. I would highly recommend you perform your work with the cowling on. That way, you can adjust the carb in the environment it will be operating in.
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Old 04-28-2007, 07:39 AM
mfuess is offline
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Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

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Originally Posted by khan View Post
Thanks for clarifying!! This confused me a lot. And thanks for all you inputs!!! We should save and print them all.
Once you get accustomed to good tuning practices, you won't need any help. But it never hurts to have some good reference material handy!
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Old 04-29-2007, 11:38 PM
Izzy is offline
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Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

Hey Mark, there's something wrong with your site--I can't display the page. quick question: I just maidened my yak with a DA 50 yesterday and have run it with the factory settings. Has this harmed the engine? maybe 4 or 5 16oz tanks through it. also, Should I tune the engine using yourmethod right away, with 32:1 lawnboy ashless, or wait 'til i switch to amsoil 100:1 (i know settings will change once I change mixtures). Thanks for the great info!

Izzy
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Old 04-30-2007, 01:27 AM
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Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

I put the example of the da 50 because it's the only brand new engine i'm running right now. I used your method on the others before (when i got the info from another site) and it works flawlessly
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Old 04-30-2007, 05:39 AM
mfuess is offline
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Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

Quote:
Originally Posted by israelg48 View Post
Hey Mark, there's something wrong with your site--I can't display the page. quick question: I just maidened my yak with a DA 50 yesterday and have run it with the factory settings. Has this harmed the engine? maybe 4 or 5 16oz tanks through it. also, Should I tune the engine using yourmethod right away, with 32:1 lawnboy ashless, or wait 'til i switch to amsoil 100:1 (i know settings will change once I change mixtures). Thanks for the great info!

Izzy
Greetings IZZY,

Yes, our web server is down and should "hopefully" be back up sometime today. The factory settings from DA are often close to a perfect tune. I'm sure your engine is fine but you still need to keep a watchful eye on your tune as it breaks-in.

If it starts easy and you get clean throttle with minimal "four stroking" I would leave it alone. One thing about a DA-50 is, they are rarely (if ever) out of tune from the factory. Desert Aircraft does a supreme job making sure their engines are setup properly and your engine may only need the slightest fine adjustments as it breaks-in. You will have to "tweak" your tune slightly when you switch to the 100:1.

In my "humble" opinion, the DA-50 is the finest 50cc engine available. I have yet to see one needing a major re-tune.
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Old 04-30-2007, 08:14 AM
mfuess is offline
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Re: Gas engine tuning for newbies....

Quote:
Originally Posted by israelg48 View Post
Hey Mark, there's something wrong with your site--I can't display the page. quick question: I just maidened my yak with a DA 50 yesterday and have run it with the factory settings. Has this harmed the engine? maybe 4 or 5 16oz tanks through it. also, Should I tune the engine using yourmethod right away, with 32:1 lawnboy ashless, or wait 'til i switch to amsoil 100:1 (i know settings will change once I change mixtures). Thanks for the great info!

Izzy
The TECH SITE is back up again!!!!
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