Originally Posted by rcalbuquerque

Who should I take this up with please? Name , number I would like to
Just curious.
Thanks for your reply
Lou Silva
Albuquerque NM

Call Hobbico. Ask for Bill Baxter. He is the service center manager. You know the number since you have called it already. But make sure to speak to Bill Baxter.

Judge
Sorry, but your descriptions just make it sound more and more like an on board problem. The plane started to roll and stopped responding to commands. That sounds like a classic loss of system power. Or perhaps a vibration induced problem since you say you were at high throttle. This could have caused a problem with the switches or the RX. BTW - what receiver were you using?
R5014DPS RX
__________________
If this was the problem then why did the trasmitter come back with new pots. Does Futaba replace items if they are in good working order. I was told by Futaba service that most likly the cause of the crash was the trasmitter pots being defective.

This is a perfect example why it's beneficial to have two receivers. It might not have prevented the crash, but it will give you answers, instead of many questions.

What receiver model did you use ?

Are you 1000000% sure the throttle was set to go to idle in failsafe and if so, was it tested by turning the Tx off with engine running ?

Were control surfaces set to "hold" or neutral position during failsafe ?

Did the roll rate stay the same after you lost control ? (if the system lost power, the ailerons would blow back and the roll rate gets smaller)

Was there electronic kill switch ? (With switch installed, it kills the engine the moment receiver loses power)

Without answering the above and giving as much details as possible, all anybody (including myself) can tell you are just guesses.

The pots replacement is a "feel good" measure. It can't have anything to do with your crash the way you describe it.

P.

I really would suggest a more thorough investigation... as assuming the problem fixed via Defective Pots... could lead to another mishap should the pots NOT be the first cause.

Really sounds more like an electrical power failure...


Give the remains more scrutiny if you can.....

I plan to test this radio system fully in a funtana 90 before attempting flight with my new 33% Edge 330S

pots are one of those things that usually work or don't work not much inbetween for them.but anything is possible i guess,the only thing i can add is i am sorry for your loss

I always hate hearing about this kind of misfortune. I also use a Futaba 12z and have a lot of money invested in my Comp Arf Yak. (The most expensive plane I have had in 30 years of flying) I have been using the 12z for about a year at about 5-10 flights a week and no problems yet.

Sorry to hear about your loss.

thanks for the kind words...

This is a perfect example why it's beneficial to have two receivers. It might not have prevented the crash, but it will give you answers, instead of many questions.
I had 2 Futaba 8 channel pcm receivers for the first 40 flights with no problem but switched to the R5014DPS for better set up options and simplified installation. This worked fine for ten flights.

What receiver model did you use ?Futaba R5014DPS

Are you 1000000% sure the throttle was set to go to idle in failsafe and if so, was it tested by turning the Tx off with engine running ? Fail safe was working fine...just never went into failsafe

Were control surfaces set to "hold" or neutral position during failsafe ? Hold

Did the roll rate stay the same after you lost control ? (if the system lost power, the ailerons would blow back and the roll rate gets smaller)It happened so fast I honestly could not answer with certanty

Was there electronic kill switch ? (With switch installed, it kills the engine the moment receiver loses power) No kill switch installed

Without answering the above and giving as much details as possible, all anybody (including myself) can tell you are just guesses.

The pots replacement is a "feel good" measure. It can't have anything to do with your crash the way you describe it. I disagree with this statement but respect your opinon

Lou,

I’m sorry for your loss. I have had it happen to me and it really sucks.

When you installed the new RX did you re-program the failsafe?

Normally with coreless servos if there is a power loss the servos push back towards neutral quite fast because the air pressure easily moves them. If you were rolling on a down line they would not stay put very long and the plane would spiral out (but still in to the ground.)

In a power loss if you have a spring on your carb the servo will be pushed/pulled close to idle. Does/did your throttle have a return spring? What kind of servo?

Chris.

Chris
Hitec 5955's all around including throttle.No return spring on throttle. Roll rate seemed to be consistant all the way to the ground.

Originally Posted by rcalbuquerque

This is a perfect example why it's beneficial to have two receivers. It might not have prevented the crash, but it will give you answers, instead of many questions.
I had 2 Futaba 8 channel pcm receivers for the first 40 flights with no problem but switched to the R5014DPS for better set up options and simplified installation. This worked fine for ten flights.

What receiver model did you use ?Futaba R5014DPS

Are you 1000000% sure the throttle was set to go to idle in failsafe and if so, was it tested by turning the Tx off with engine running ? Fail safe was working fine...just never went into failsafe

Were control surfaces set to "hold" or neutral position during failsafe ? Hold

Did the roll rate stay the same after you lost control ? (if the system lost power, the ailerons would blow back and the roll rate gets smaller)It happened so fast I honestly could not answer with certanty

Was there electronic kill switch ? (With switch installed, it kills the engine the moment receiver loses power) No kill switch installed

Without answering the above and giving as much details as possible, all anybody (including myself) can tell you are just guesses.

The pots replacement is a "feel good" measure. It can't have anything to do with your crash the way you describe it. I disagree with this statement but respect your opinon

G3 data stream is more suspectible to loss of link due to noise than PCM 1024 stream. (Twice as much data through the same bandwidth has its drawbacks). That's why we've seen the very quiet, no big fanfare necessary arrival of the 5114 receiver, which offers additional encoding option with slower data rate, which is supposed to be more resilient to noise. The 5014 receiver is discontinued.

Since your plane didn't go to failsafe though:

a) the loss of the link wasn't absolute, you got stuck in the twilight zone with neither control nor failsafe
b) there's a bug in the Rx software
c) you somehow lost power (unlikely though, since your servos were holding their position)
d) there wasn't enough time before the crash for you to notice the throttle failsafe
e) there was something else wrong inside the transmitter that they are not telling you (ie. some wire shorting out something on the PCB, software crash etc.)
f) your Rx and/or Tx got hit by cosmic rays

Did you use the same Transmitter in the PCM1024 mode with the dual receiver setup ?

How many total flights on the Transmitter ?

The pots scenario would be plausible if you lost one or maybe two controls - ie. you lost throttle and rudder, or throttle and ailerons etc. but even that is a stretch. I had a pot failure recently and it was all contained to a single channel (rudder in my case)

I feel like I'm back at my job ... analyzing things that are never supposed to happen


P.

Did you use the same Transmitter in the PCM1024 mode with the dual receiver setup ? Yes

How many total flights on the Transmitter ? probably 100

Originally Posted by rcalbuquerque

Did you use the same Transmitter in the PCM1024 mode with the dual receiver setup ? Yes

How many total flights on the Transmitter ? probably 100

It's going to be tough to figure out

Personally, I decided to wait before going to 14MZ the day I found it's running Windows. I had my doubts about it. Sure enough, couple months later, I witnessed a heli crash where the transmitter seemingly "locked up" and needed a hard reset. The pilot lost control completely - so much for two independent processors and this scenario not being possible as claimed by the marketing literature.

Then I witnessed a perfectly good helicopter with several 100s of flights with PCM1024 receiver go down on it's 6th flight with 5014 receiver at pretty close range. Couple weeks later, the European market got it's 5114 receiver.

It will be near impossible to determine what brought your plane down. But since you changed the Receiver setup and went from PCM1024 to PCM G3, it's very probable that somehow caused it.

I'd really hate to read another post in 4 months about another crashed plane with the same equipment "that all checked out from service".

My suggestion ? Two independent receivers, just like you had it before. If you totally lose control, you can be 99.9% certain that it was either the Tx or interference.

P.

I am going to attempt to disclose as much information as possible to try and find what cause this plane to crash.
Original Aeroworks 100cc QB Yac set up:
BME 110/ Falcon ignition
Hitec 5245 mini MG servo on throttle mounted on engine box
2 Hitec 5955 TG on rudder mouned in a swb self adjusting tray
4 Hitec 5955 TG Ailerons
2 Hitec 5955 TG elevators
2 Futaba R148 1024 PCM receivers
2 Electodynamics Heavy duty switch harness
2 NOBS 1950 sub c nmh batteries
Plane weight was 28.5lbs and flew very nice with no issues.
I decided to try and reduce the overal weight with the following changes:
Switched to the G3 R5014 DPS receiver
Stayed with the 2 1950 battery pack but pluged the extra one in a spare channel on the receiver
went with one Hitec 5955 TG sevo on rudder
This saved about 10 oz and 10 successful flights
OK on Sunday I meet with Ralph L who is teaching me to fly IMAC and we started to practice I flew 2 or 3 flights with no problems on channel 37. There became an channel conflict so I switched to channel 11 and took of with Ralph at my side and started to practice the sequence after about 2 minutes or so the throttle stuck at full and for a moment I lost aileron control and the plane began to roll. I reganed control but the throttle stayed at full and I flew that way for about 15 minutes or what seemed like an eternity until the motor quit and I landed safely on the runway.
upon inspection the throttle servo worked fine on the ground so Ralph recomended that I put a new servo in cause those mini's don't allways work and move that servo back into the Fuse cause sometimes you can get interferance from the ignition. So I move the servo back and switched it out for a Hitec 5955 TG since I had a new one sitting around.
Ok Monday we meet again to practice for the upcoming meet in El Paso on Friday. First flight of the day Plane goes in like I stated before ,rolling to the ground with no responce to stick commands.
I know I am out the money and the time and I will allways fly Futaba cause I like it .just looking for the problem so to avoid problems in the future.

Sounds wierd to me. First it was like you were having PCM lockout - especially in the first instance... but then ailerons came back? It was a bad idea to use a small servo like that which you already mentioned.

When you went from PCM1024 2 Rx setup to the 5014 did you remember to re-set your PCM setting? If not then the throttle would not go where you expected it if it locked out.

It's unlikely that the throttle and aileron pots would be bad... I would call Futaba and ask Bill again about what they did. Maybe there was more of a radio problem than the tech reported?

Did you send them the Rx as well?

Gonna be hard to figure out for sure.

Did you send them the Rx as well?
Yes
My feeling was radio interferance at first until my radio came back from service. I asked Futaba if the pots caused the crash and they said it would cause the plane to lose control and probably was the cause.
I don't think the 2 receivers would have saved me cause when the pots go your done.