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Old 09-24-2019, 07:26 PM
Shane Quale is offline
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To split ailerons or to not?

Hello Guys,

Iíve got a Carden frame that has half ailerons. My question is the halves are split for a simple 2 servo operation, do I keep them split? What are the advantages of this besides no servo binding? Or do I make them the full half aileron again and join the split? Also, what can be the advantage with a half aileron towards the outer edge of the wing?

I will be hopefully flying this next season for IMAC so this will be my winter project. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:54 PM
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Having split ailerons allows flexiblity in the rare case of a servo failure, less binding, and more creativity like crow if needed. Even if none of these are desired I don't really see a need to connect them since they are already seperate.
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Old 09-25-2019, 01:52 AM
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Interesting that they made the ailerons short and split them...
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Old 09-25-2019, 05:19 AM
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I think I would just fly it. Keep the servos matched for the ailerons. I believe some people were experimenting with this for rollers but I don't know if it really gained any traction. But unless needed to, I would keep everything the way it is and fly it.
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Old 09-25-2019, 06:34 AM
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Split ailerons

It makes no difference performance wise, it does have some benefits like: allows you to use the inboard ones as flaps, crow etc. Seen IMAC guys use the outboard ones only to tame down the roll speed.
It also allows for easy servo matching and if you loose a servo you still have good aileron control.
The PAU Viper is designed that way, i have one and it flies great!
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Old 09-25-2019, 09:45 AM
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I don't believe I've seen the ailerons split on a shortened aileron like that but I have split ailerons on almost all of my competition planes.
First, as stated above, I can't think of any advantage that would come from joining them. There are very definite advantages in having them split, although some of the advantages may be diminished with the shorter overall length ailerons on your plane.
1. Absolutely no binding servos.
2. Using the outboard ailerons only, reduces disturbed air over the horizontal stabilizers and tames
the roll rate.
3. Inboard sections come in handy as "Flaps" on short or limited paved runways.
4. As stated above, an unlikely aileron servo failure, does not effect the remaining servo.
5. If you have a radio that allows you to "turn on" with the wrong model, it will not bind any
servos with the possible exception the rudder in a push pull set up.
6. If your radio has "conditions" capability, you can easily incorporate variable aileron
combinations with out using switches. The combinations can be tied to throttle or stick
positions.
Again, some of these options I have described may not apply to the shorter overall length of
the ailerons on your plane.
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Old 09-25-2019, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flybye Steve View Post
I don't believe I've seen the ailerons split on a shortened aileron like that but I have split ailerons on almost all of my competition planes.
First, as stated above, I can't think of any advantage that would come from joining them. There are very definite advantages in having them split, although some of the advantages may be diminished with the shorter overall length ailerons on your plane.
1. Absolutely no binding servos.
2. Using the outboard ailerons only, reduces disturbed air over the horizontal stabilizers and tames
the roll rate.
3. Inboard sections come in handy as "Flaps" on short or limited paved runways.
4. As stated above, an unlikely aileron servo failure, does not effect the remaining servo.
5. If you have a radio that allows you to "turn on" with the wrong model, it will not bind any
servos with the possible exception the rudder in a push pull set up.
6. If your radio has "conditions" capability, you can easily incorporate variable aileron
combinations with out using switches. The combinations can be tied to throttle or stick
positions.
Again, some of these options I have described may not apply to the shorter overall length of
the ailerons on your plane.
Wondered if you could 'elaborate' on number 6, in terms of throttle/stick position and aileron throw (inner and outer)?
Thx
Bill
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Old 09-25-2019, 11:03 AM
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Glad to. On my Dalten, I have Snap Roll settings for all control surfaces set up on a "condition" that
goes into effect when Rudder, Elevator and Aileron sticks are at full throw. This condition also combines the aileron sections with out having to operate a switch.
I use the outer aileron sections only for performing all of the other maneuvers in the sequence.
I have another condition that is initiated with a switch which activates the inboard sections for "flaps". There are a lot of other aileron section combinations that can be easily programed into
conditions activated by either stick positions or switches.
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Old 09-26-2019, 04:15 AM
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Thank you for the responses. Greatly appreciated! I will keep the splits and see how it works out.
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Old 09-26-2019, 10:44 AM
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Point of interest: To date, there are two ARF's that have come out with split ailerons. The PAU mentioned in post #5 and the new 30cc Tiger by H9. The Tiger, in my opinion, has a very neat set up. The aileron is designed such that you have the option of cutting and separating the aileron and it has a second servo bay so you can install a servo for the inboard section.
I have no idea why the ARF vendors wouldn't offer this option on any model. The only cost is adding a servo bay and the advantages are significant.
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:34 AM
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I would use them as high/low rate , the outboard servo for just pattern flying and then flip the switch to activate inboard ailerons for 3D
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:39 PM
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In terms of IMAC would this be acceptable in terms of a full size flying version of this model? I contemplated doing this on my KK300 and not seeing any fully aerobatic planes besides one I think with split ailerons I decided against the modification
Since the balance of 2 servos per aileron depends on what protection you have when one of them locks up and the safety factor of having control of half your aileron due to a failure of one of the two servos I asked myself this same question.......... Is this legal above "Basic" level competition and looking at the safety aspect of it would there be an advantage in getting it down in one piece? I would imagine that depends upon the skills of the pilot and the rules of IMAC?
Just my opinion
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:59 AM
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Safety factor: if servos are on a joined surface and one locks up at full deflection you may let the smoke out before it lands fighting it with with the good servo. I ran into a problem once matching ganged servos. From the point of my error to the release of the smoke was about 10 seconds and the inside of the covering is still singed. If ailerons are split and one fails you may land with one fully deflected but with 3 remaining, they will require much less deflection to correct for the one. No smoke!
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:08 AM
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Planes with split ailerons have been flown in many IMAC events. Control surfaces are exempt from the scale rules. I believe one of my planes (don't remember which one) was the first plane with split ailerons flown in an IMAC event.
I consulted the "powers to be" at the time and received unanimous agreement that split ailerons did not infract the scale rules. I competed in the Nat's several years ago with a Dalton that had ailerons split into three sections.
Although I will agree that there may be some die hard conservatives that would not like for them to be legal, I respect their point of view but respectfully disagree.
I am a staunch believer in the scale rules for IMAC but split ailerons offer so many advantages and they are perfectly legal.
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Last edited by Flybye Steve; 10-03-2019 at 09:12 AM. Reason: added verbage
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