Originally Posted by KrisW

I think you are splitting hairs a bit here, Paul. I can't recall ever seeing a loop that was positioned off center. It's just one of those manuvers that always seems to be within 15 degrees of center, no matter how the aresti is written. As for WHy a loop would be int he end box area. . that is a mystery since the entrance and exit dictate needing manuvers on either side of a loop in order to perform the loop in the first place, unless you want to exit or enter the "box" (for lack of a better term) at the end with the loop being the first or last manuver in the sequence.

"Interpretation" is where we are getting into trouble, Paul. By trying to "interpret" the rules to follow the "clearest presentation" guideline, instead of doing the opposite and following the rules and then presenting the maneuver clearly, we have lost the path to true enlightenment in the land of IMAC Zen.

If I may quote: "The CLEAREST PRESENTATION of the GEOMETRY of the Maneuver is the "Primary" (my qotes) Criteria for the Best Score"

Those are Fred Johnsons words, at the TOC in 1988. That is a QUOTE .. Not a RULE It is a Guideline, and Caveat, something to think about. It is also the Primary consideration but not the ONLY one, and it certainly does not trump the rules we have already in place, nor should it have any weight or place in an argument on a strictly sterile and logical rules discussion as to how a maneuver should be flown.

That it has somehow mysteriously been placed as the 1st of the Thousand IMAC Commandments does not give it any greater weight, or place, among ALL the considerations for judging a single maneuver. It's just one of a Thousand, and an important consideration to be sure, but still, ONLY a consideration. . and NEVER a "Rule".

I guess you've never flown a tear drop at the end box, which has 7/8 loop in it It's VERY important and not splitting hairs...

Well Paul, if you're confused then I guess you've made my point for me too...that is, the rules need clarification in this area.

Originally Posted by paffy

If this is the official direction IMAC is going, I have say I won't be participating

P.

Sorry to hear that. {Yes!!! Another Unlimited pilot out of the way!!! Let's see, how to get Albert to quit...hmmmm...maybe throw some more Carden kits at him, he'll be too busy to fly... yeah, that's it!!!}



Pete

Originally Posted by paffy

I guess you've never flown a tear drop at the end box, which has 7/8 loop in it It's VERY important and not splitting hairs...

All the teardrops I've ever seen in the end box were 5/8 loops. Not saying it can't be done, but the previous or following maneuvers would be REAL problems to have inside the "box" (since we don't do that anymore), since all maneuvers begin and end with a horizontal line.

As for judging them, follow the rules and give the pilot the benefit of the doubt if the angle of viewing is extreme. It's that simple. If he is trying to hit a 45, and doing a decent job of it, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt since my view is no better than his, and I don't have the time to run over to the end of the airspace with a sextant, protractor, and level, and check to make sure. Obvious flat or extreme angle lines would be questionable, obviously.

Originally Posted by pcastine

Well Paul, if you're confused then I guess you've made my point for me too...that is, the rules need clarification in this area.




Sorry to hear that. {Yes!!! Another Unlimited pilot out of the way!!! Let's see, how to get Albert to quit...hmmmm...maybe throw some more Carden kits at him, he'll be too busy to fly... yeah, that's it!!!}



Pete

Yup - fully agree. The "must appear" can be easily interpreted both ways. It will be up to the AMA scale aerobatics board to pick one side of the fence soon

P.