Hi you all,

want to see some other people Ideas to understand what happened because I´m worried it will happen again,
yesterday I went flying as all sundays to practice Imac with an Extreme Flight Extra300 V1 120cc that I just replaced the Servos and Rx for 2 Savox SB2271 on the Elevators, 4 Savox SB2274 on the ailerons, 1 Savox SB2292 in the Rudder and a Savox SV1270 in throttle with a brand new Spektrum AR12310T with the last Update with a Spektrum Ix12 Tx and in the 8th flight 2nd after putting a full recharge on the batteries 2 Lipo 2200mah 25C on the fail safe receiver, the airplane just quitted responding in a 90 degree vertical ascent and was full throttle tail wagged a little but no response at all went up slided to the left until it crashed half knife edge and half inverted with total destruction, after checking radio log no holds were reported on the telemetry, I have another airplane I will setup the same configuration but I am afraid it will end the same way after a few flights if there is something wrong with the Rx or the Servos.

I appreciatte your comments and Ideas.

Thank you all

sorry about the crash. I have several 12310Ts that work flawlessly, and I've never had a problem with my many Savox servos. and it really doesn't sound like a servo issue. unfortunately, with a crash like that it's unlikely you will be able to trace back to a single point of failure. I would send in the transmitter and the receiver. did you check the voltage on each pack after the crash? good luck.

Wow, so sorry that happened, very disheartening when they go in that hard...

Your setup looks like a pretty simple / solid setup to me. A little odd, IMHO, that the RX voltage is down to 8v on the 2nd flight after a recharge. With 2 x 2s2200's I would have thought you would be higher (seems like a ton of capacity). What were you running on your ignition? IBEC or dedicated battery with an optical cutoff?

It would be worth pulling the telemetry off your TX and trying to find any spikes / outliers in any of the metrics.

FG Newbie this is one of the 8 other AR12310T Rx I have in two Daltons 200cc I have the same Rx with 10 Savox sv1270 and had no issues for over a year in both planes but just switched to Brushless Servos and 11ms frame and in the 8th flight no radio in the screen there are no holds and if the signal was lost why the fail safe won´t cut the throttle, I checked and all servos max current load would be 54.5 Amps maybe that fried something?

Sthill, my ignition was hooked to a 6.6v 2100 mah Life batt, and a regular manual switch. was waiting for the opto kill switch for next week =(

th etelemetry reads no holds so I´m confused about it

Not sure if you're aware of it, but there's an ongoing thread on RCGroups that pertains to the iX12, that's frequented by the developers and engineers, as well as many with iX12 experience. I would suggest posting over there as well as leaving this open and see what info you can get.

Sorry about your plane man. That's a tough way to loose one like that. Probably the toughest part is not being able to put your finger on what happened.

I am a Spektrum user though, and although I use the DX18, the systems are very similar in how they deliver data... I think what I should ask is about your "frame loss", as well as high number of fades. Those seem very high in my experience of everything I've ever owned.
I've never had one frame-loss... and honestly if I did, I would have figured out why.

In all the 8 flights, what did the data read in the prior flights?

Do you have any pics of the installation as you were assembling this plane?... I'm wondering what was shadowing the receivers so much... Rx A with over 2200 fades, and Rx R with almost 1800, and the other 2 with nearly 1000 fades... All things considered, it looks like it was a perfect storm... and the receiver environment was hostile.

Was the equipment imbedded in carbon fiber?... or the antenna array not spread out to optomize the reception?.. That data you have really does tell a story. What's strange is there was no "holds" in all that. That's about all I can glean from what you've shown though... I wouldn't use the same set-up... I'm not saying the components were bad, but I would seriously do some research on how to place them. The receiver antenna array Spektrum offers is some of the best in the biz in my experience, and I've always followed their recommendations.

The most fades I've ever gotten in flight were maybe 250 on Ant. A, all the other receivers are always well below 100.... and I've never had one frame-loss... so I'm really wondering how you had that set up.

Here's a link to that discussion on the iX12... maybe someone can give you first hand insight there. Again, sorry about your plane man.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...-Spektrum-iX12

Originally Posted by Mario Sanchez

FG Newbie this is one of the 8 other AR12310T Rx I have in two Daltons 200cc I have the same Rx with 10 Savox sv1270 and had no issues for over a year in both planes but just switched to Brushless Servos and 11ms frame and in the 8th flight no radio in the screen there are no holds and if the signal was lost why the fail safe won´t cut the throttle, I checked and all servos max current load would be 54.5 Amps maybe that fried something?

picture is the setup running in the dalton only difference is I use 2 3000mah 30c Lipo

Mario,

I think Dgrant is onto something... I was looking around for Fade / Frame Loss and Hold metric information and found the following on the Spektrum site under the following product: https://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/...ProdID=SPM9540

"Antenna fades – represent the loss of a bit of information on that specific antenna. Typically it’s normal to have as many as 50 – 100 antenna fades on any one of the antennas during a flight. If any single antenna experiences over 500 fades in a single flight, the antenna should be repositioned in the aircraft to optimize the RF link.

Frame Loss – represents simultaneous antenna fades on all attached receivers. If the RF link is performing optimally, frame losses per flight should be less than 20.

Hold – a hold occurs when 45 contiguous (one right after the other) frame losses occur. This takes about one second. If a hold occurs during flight, it’s important to re-evaluate the system, moving the antennas to different locations and/or checking to be sure the transmitter and receivers are working correctly. "

Mario, in your pic in post #7(I know it's not the plane in question here), I'm trying very hard to find the main receiver antennas. Even with a zoom in view, it's looking like those antennas are wrapped up in the wiring... as I can't imagine anywhere else they could be. I'm not seeing any tubes or guides anywhere where they might be either. I'm hoping they're not wrapped up, but if they are you really should be looking at getting every antenna out of those harnesses, and getting them aiming outward, in a direction as far from anything as you can.

I do see the remote Rx leads coming out of the main Rx, and going off somewhere, and hopefully out to an out of the way place that's clear of obstruction, interference, or shadowing for those remote Rx's to do their job. Each of those remote receivers should all be aimed at different directions(pertaining to the wires that exit from them). That's what creates the antenna array. That's extremely important to optimize the signal reception coming to the plane.

Yes, sthill is right on the money for the info that's important to follow. Essentially these systems are designed so one event leads to another that leads to another. A Fade is recorded after one single remote Rx is missed 11 times, a Frame Loss is when all the receivers are missed a certain number of times, and a Hold is exactly as is stated above.

Again I'm wondering what kind of data you've had from other planes since this isn't your first Spektrum system.

If you're other planes data reads as this does, you've probably been very fortunate up to this point, and you really should look into rearranging every receiver and antenna in your other planes.

What does a range check do on the other planes?.... I do get a few thousand fades, and some frame losses, and a few holds when I range check(in reduced power mode), but honestly I don't think I've had over 40 frame losses even in range check mode... Still remains a mystery why you got no holds, and no fail-safe function was activated. It's like someone just turned off the switch on the plane....

Speaking of switch... what switch are you using? It should be the original soft-switch and nothing else. Those are designed to fail to the "on" position.

I've seen some pilots use a secondary switch between their battery and Rx, and actually that's not a great set-up either. That can create a definite area of failure. Some do this to bypass the inconvenience of having to disconnect Rx batteries at the end of the day... as modern Spektrum systems will have a few Mah power drain over a few days or more.
Best bet though is to use the soft-switch, and just get used to unplugging your batteries when you won't be flying for a while.

So what kind of switch were you using?.... since what you describe is somewhat like somebody just turned your plane off. There were no Holds, there was no Fail-Safe, it just shut down.... and although your data shows high numbers, there's still many questions.

without going into failsafeAs Newbie asked, did you check the packs AFTER the problem occurred. You can waste as much time as you like worrying about antenna positions, fades, etc but NONE of those can cause loss of control without the receiver indicating it went into hold hold / failsafe, which you said did not happen.. I don't recall seeing you mentioning if it actually DID go into fail safe, just a loss of control. In other words, did the engine go to idle or engine shut down, depending on throttle position when you bound the plane.

The bottom line is that if it was a loss of RF related issue (transmitter to receiver link) then it should have indicated a hold if you lost control long enough for the airplane to go in. I'm guessing it didn't since you said it reported no holds.

If that's the case it seems unlikely it was the receiver or transmitter but I would never use that receiver again after it getting smashed like that, even if it seems to work ok. That leaves batteries servos or switches / wiring. Does spectrum log receiver voltage?


You should have been able to tell while flying if you had control of ANYTHING but a control was stuck bad enough to make the airplane uncontrollable. The only things that comes to mind that would kill EVERYTHING is the receiver servo driver section died preventing any of the servos from working or the batteries both died. Both should be testable following the crash by simply checking battery voltage and powering up the receiver to see if anything works at all. Of course if it doesn't it may have CAUSED the crash or it may be the RESULT of the crash. IF there is nothing else wrong, it's a likely the cause of the crash.

I have Savox servos in 2 aircraft. Both have flown on Spektrum DSM2, and not 1 issue.

It may just be a complete control loss.

The thing I dont like seeing, is all the high numbers on your antennae. I also dont like seeing all the Frame Losses. Doesnt Spektrum say 45 Continous Frame Losses gives you a hold.

Not quite sure what else to say except for it sucks..... Get back up on that horse after it bucks you off. Take a little break from it.

I wiuld send the radio in to Horizon for service and a check out. Eliminate that point.

Originally Posted by Mario Sanchez

picture is the setup running in the dalton only difference is I use 2 3000mah 30c Lipo

Your antenna placement for channel A should not be routed and zip tied to all your servo extension, not saying that crashed the airplane! but it does explain to 2200 frame losses in your picture. These should be positioned in a 45 degree V or 90 degrees from one another.

Another interesting anomaly... if the pic of that data screen on the tranny were taken after the crash, why was it reporting 8.0v? I know when I turn my plane off, the voltage report goes to zero within a few seconds. The rest of the data remains intact. So if the plane lost total power in flight, that might explain why the fail-safe didn't engage, but still why did telemetry report 8.0v if there was no power??.

I am flying a DX18G2, but I would think the telemetry reporting and data are very similar.

Ditto on post #13. All antennas should be clear of any and all wiring. Even those little whisker antennas on the remote receivers should be as STRAIGHT out from the Rx as you can humanly make them.... not bent or misaligned in any way.... and checked frequently to make sure they don't shift or move. Really that's a part of pre-flight and maintenance.

Dumb question, since he said it was bound at 11ms vs 22ms, would you double the amount of allowable fades and frame losses? Does twice the number of packets sent mean twice the allowable errors? Probably a question for Horizon, but it was just a thought...