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Old 05-01-2019, 08:12 AM
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AMA then brought in MultiGP, the drone racing group, as a SIG. The only one I might add that AMA does not enforce the requirement of ALA AMA SIGs to require AMA membership. MultiGP only "suggests" it for their members. IMAC, NSRCA, NMPRA, LSF, etc., etc. all REQUIRE AMA membership. Not MultiGP and AMA seems not to care. I cannot fathom why, but there it is.



MultiGP is multifaceted and includes indoor tiny whoop events that would require neither AMA membership nor an FAA number. I have never been to an outdoor MultiGP event where AMA was not required to fly. MultiGP is not BVLOS flying, and the organization has many similar issues with FAA regulation that are compatible with all of your complaints. In no case are MultiGP pilots engaged in any activity that has brought on any of the new rules that affect the hobby as a whole. They want what you want. Period.



That said, most racers think the plank guys are jerks. Why? because of this type of information - they are required to get AMA to fly in a race, yet when they show up to an AMA field to practice they are met with attitude. They are asking for the AMA to do precisely the same thing you want the AMA to do.


If you cant differentiate between MultiGP which is highly organized and safety focused, and MR/AV which is the clueless dude that buys a Mavic pro on a whim at best buy, why do you expect the FAA to do so? SMH.
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:48 AM
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:53 AM
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MultiGP is multifaceted and includes indoor tiny whoop events that would require neither AMA membership nor an FAA number.
THat's nice. But still does not address how AMA allows them to be the one and only SIG where AMA membership is not required. BTW, the free-flight SIG requires all their members to be AMA members and many of their events are held indoors and all free flight is exempt from FAA rules and requirements. So what you fly is not the point. I just find it interesting that AMA allows it this because it goes to their mindset towards drones.

Secondly, why is MultiGP given a seat at the table (an AMA SIG) but NSRCA, IMAC, LSF, etc. are not. They are the groups who will bear the brunt of the new rules, but their only voice is the AMA.

BTW, my local club embraces quad racing. We have a very active group and now many club members have started fixed wing FPV racin. So not all clubs are anti-MR
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:59 AM
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Easy answer to that Judge. Membership numbers matter. If any of the other SIGs had the membership numbers or media coverage they could have a seat at the table and negotiate better terms with the AMA.


AMA membership is required to participate in an outdoor MultiGP event and MultiGP flyer must comply with the FAA rules - all of them - just like fixed wing traditional flying. Period. They bear the same brunt as any other AMA SIG. It makes little sense and would stymie organizational growth for MultiGP to require AMA membership for folks participating in tiny whoop racing held in bars, restaurants and shopping malls. They negotiated and achieved a loophole that they needed. Rather than complain they got special treatment, why not see if free flight can do the same - or do they even want to?



I'm happy that your club embraces FPV racing. While you may not have any animosity towards MultiGP, the tone of your posts seem anti MultiGP, and they encourage others to be. MultiGP, the AMA, all the SIGS and YOU all want the same thing. Faced with a good deal of resentment at most AMA traditional flying sites, can you blame MultiGP for wanting and achieving a separate seat at the table?
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Old 05-01-2019, 11:14 AM
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Easy answer to that Judge. Membership numbers matter. If any of the other SIGs had the membership numbers or media coverage they could have a seat at the table and negotiate better terms with the AMA.
OK, I missed that part in the AMA discussion of requirements for SIG status.

Quote:
AMA membership is required to participate in an outdoor MultiGP event and MultiGP flyer must comply with the FAA rules - all of them - just like fixed wing traditional flying. Period.
Fair enough. Still not what the AMA says about membership requirements for all other SIGS, but ok.

Quote:
They bear the same brunt as any other AMA SIG./quote]

Right, that 400-foot altitude cap will be crushing for MultiGp races, won't it?

Quote:
It makes little sense and would stymie organizational growth for MultiGP to require AMA membership for folks participating in tiny whoop racing held in bars, restaurants and shopping malls.
Again, AMA requires SIG members to be AMA members, with this one exception. AMA decided to waive that requirement for MultiGP.



They negotiated and achieved a loophole that they needed. Rather than complain they got special treatment, why not see if free flight can do the same - or do they even want to?

While you may not have any animosity towards MultiGP, the tone of your posts seem anti MultiGP, and they encourage others to be. [/quote]

Not anti multiGP at all. Just still unclear why they get special treatment from the AMA. You list various reasons/excuses why you think it is justified, but the fact remains that AMA has granted a special exception to one particular group. I find that interesting.

As far as MultiGP wanting the same thing as myself, I doubt that. I sincerely doubt that MultiGP gives a crap if IMAC, soaring, pattern, jets, etc. are ended due to the pending 400-foot altitude cap. Once again, the groups who will be impacted the most by the new rules are the ones absent from being represented at the stakeholders meetings.

Hopefully future meetings will be more inclusive of the groups with the most to lose.
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:43 PM
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Didnt say you were anti MultiGP. Your tone is. Still is.
MultiGP has huge membership numbers and an active mainstream media presence. Like it or not, in our democracy that makes a big difference. The representatives in government are likely to have heard of MultiGP or seen a race - that makes a big difference. The tone you put forward is quite negative toward multiGP if not outright offensive, and jealous. All this does is make the MR racing community less enthusiastic about the AMA - what is the point? I submit that instead of bitching they got a good deal, and harping on the one rule - the 400 ft rule- that affects you but not them. It would be for more beneficial to welcome their membership, inform them of the issues other SIGs are having, advise them of the advantages of being an AMA SIG, and coax them into advocating for a better outcome for everyone.
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Old 05-01-2019, 02:06 PM
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Didnt say you were anti MultiGP. Your tone is. Still is.
MultiGP has huge membership numbers and an active mainstream media presence. Like it or not, in our democracy that makes a big difference.
MultiGP membership is 1/10 of the AMA’s. And they are forced to join if they want to participate in all that MultiGP has to offer. This is not unlike the majority of total AMA membership that were “forced” to join AMA in order to use the local clubs’ flying field.
Considering the lack of clout the AMA has had with the FAA, I am beginning to believe we have all been duped into “joining” an over-priced insurance company that operates under the guise of being a “non-profit” aero modeling organization.

Astro
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:18 PM
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Didnt say you were anti MultiGP. Your tone is. Still is.
Actually it os more anti-AMA. I cannot fathom why they grant this exemption to a given group. Good on MultiGP for getting it.

I am also concerned about the total lack of representation at this meeting of SIGs whose members will be impacted to greater degree than MultiGP members will.

In fact, close to 50% of the "stakeholders" are drone related. A good indication of where we stand. As you so aptly point out, we are a minor fringe element which appear not to have any voice at the table. I do not think this bodes well for us.
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:33 PM
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Folks, I wouldn’t get too wrapped up about this particular meeting. Why? Note who was NOT there at all ... the major stakeholders / voices: ALPA, Airport Operators group, Google, Amazon Prime Air, A4A, etc. etc.

This meeting was the equivalent of the “kids table” at holiday dinners.
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:46 PM
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Even worse. But then again not sure they are all stakeholders for recreational rules since they are all commercial oriented concerns. Stakeholders in the NAS, yes, recreational sUAS, not really.
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:53 PM
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Even worse. But then again not sure they are all stakeholders for recreational rules since they are all commercial oriented concerns. Stakeholders in the NAS, yes, recreational sUAS, not really.

True. But at best this group is putting together a list of “hopes” that they will take to the adults and beg, plead, etc.

The reality is none of them are power players in the larger discussion. I can’t see that they’ll have much influence. But time will tell.

With MA magazine full of CFO earning about finances, stakes are huge for AMA. They’ve been touting their “influence” as reason to give them money. Don’t know that folks will tolerate another failure to deliver on their rhetoric.
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:01 PM
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Stakes are huge for many of us, especially those that fly things other than small park fliers, racing quads, and such. I like to fly big airplanes and gliders. Neither one will be much fun with a 400 foot cap.
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:43 PM
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The power players really should think this through a bit more. If they don't cut the traditional fixed wing fliers some slack, and if the AMA does go belly up, there's going to be a rather large group of rouge flying going on for some time into the future. Mind you it will primarily be in places of little concern to full scale operations, but non the less it won't be in compliance with the commercial players wishes. Which could be worse, making a few exceptions for the group that for practical purposes has never been a safety threat, or a transition to the wild west of RC flying?
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:16 PM
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I know the 400 ft is an issue for iMac gliders and a few others. I have a laser range finder I occasionally take to the field. I fly 35 percent and up, I am currently building a 43 percent. For general flying and 3D I find I am hardly ever going up to 400 ft. O suggest if you can obtain one it can be informative. I personally thought I was flying up around 600 ft to set up a blender or knife edge spin but I was going up between 375 to 450 ft on average. I do my best now to stay below 400 ft especially since our grandfathered field is less than 5 miles from DTO airport
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Old 05-02-2019, 06:16 AM
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Stakes are huge for many of us, especially those that fly things other than small park fliers, racing quads, and such. I like to fly big airplanes and gliders. Neither one will be much fun with a 400 foot cap.
Yep. We will have to burn the large planes and fly the small foamies....YUCK! I cannot bring myself to even think such thoughts. What has come over me!

I suppose when it gets that bad, I will pull out my fishing or golf gear and have an RC bon fire.
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