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Old 12-27-2007, 11:20 AM
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Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

Dear All,

I decided to make an 88,5" Extra 300 from Extreme Flight, but instead of gas, Electric powered!

Here is my selected setup:

Brushless motor Hacker A60-18L, with APC-E 24x12

Controller
Master Spin-99 OPTO

Weatronic dual receiver, powered by 2s lipo's

6 Hitec 5955 or JR 8711 (1 per aileron, 2 elevator and 2 rudder)

4 Flight Power EVO25 5s 3700 mAh (two is series to become 10s and then, these two in parallel to become 10s 7400 mAh)

What you guys think about these, Is there any setup which is significantly better?

Thanks,

Folgado
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Old 12-27-2007, 01:44 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

It sounds like a really awesome setup!!

The only thing I'd change about your setup is that I don't believe you will need 2 servos on the rudder, only one 5955 or 8711 will suffice. For the 8711, as it's even more powerful than the 5955, I'd surely use only one. No need for two on a plane this size. Saves you complexity and weight.

Big electrics are cool!
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Old 12-27-2007, 03:22 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

I'd make a few changes.

The Hacker A60-18L is a great motor, and it's under-rated per Hacker specs.

A good 50CC gas engine puts out the equivalent of about 3000-3500W.

A well set-up electric 50CC plane comes in heavier than a well set-up gas version, typically 1/2lb-1.5lb. (this is compared to dry gas weight)

So, to get good 50CC performance, we usually aim at 3500-3700W on a 50CC sized converted airframe.

A good lipo cell can be expected to hold 3.5-3.7V under load. Your 10S setup can be expected to hold 35-37V under load. This will require about 100 amps to achieve 50CC type power. That's really too much for the Hacker to reliably handle, and you'll need a bigger prop than 24" to get it.

Also, 7400 mah will make for a nice flight time, but it'll be kind of a porky setup, now you're looking at more like 2 lbs. additional over a simple gas setup.

What we normally do for 50CC conversions is to use that same motor, the controller is fine too, the 24" prop size is good (although the big APCs make a hell of a racket where the XOAR woods are nice and quiet). However, we use 12S 5000mah batteries.

12S can be expected to hold 42-44V under load, meaning you only need 80-85 amps to get good power, and the Hacker A16-18L will actually do that pretty realiably.

Here are a couple of short video of this exact setup in one of our 87" Extras. This is Hacker A60-18L on 12S5000 TP and Xoar 24x12 wood. Both of these flights are very short, I typically set my timer for 8min and that's a little bit on the safe side. The plane is nice and light, with good thrust and throttle response. I've flown the 10S setup you've described above, and to me, it feels like flying a 40-46cc engine in an overweight 50CC plane. The 12S setup feels just right.

114th Xmas 300SHP 85 Ben IV 12.8.07 (7 min 1 sec)


114th Xmas 300SHP 85 Ben III 12.8.07 (4 min 31 sec)


We do sometimes use 10S setups on big planes, but not quite as big as these Extras we're discussing. Our 85" Katana is a smallish 50CC plane at 1340 squares and 14.5lbs on a DA50, so it comes in at about 15-15.5lbs. on 10S 4400-5000mah electric. That's acceptable power, but it's a 6-7 minute flight.

If you decide to use 10s, I'd suggest using another A60, either 14L or 16L, so that you can get decent amp draw on a 24" prop. The 18L is going to require bigger to get decent current draw on 10S.

And, yes, I know that Hacker's website tells a different story. That's why we test these setups.
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Old 12-27-2007, 03:29 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

Yep, Mr. Peanut hit the nail in the head.

Hacker A60 18L
APC / XOAR 24x12
FP 25 EVO 6S 5000 x 2 to make 12S
CC Phoenix 110 HV.
HS 5955TG all around.

That's what I have in my 19.5 lb 35% Dalton Extra 260. Works great.
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Old 12-27-2007, 07:56 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

Thanks a lot for your inputs!

One question: How do you charge the 12s packs?

Can I connect two Flight Power batteries, let's say 2x 6s 5000 mAh connected in series, and charge it with two 6s lipo balancers? like it is described in Flight Power web site for charging 10s packs.

What charger do you guys use for 12s?

That electric extra in the movie is incredible...
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Old 12-27-2007, 08:42 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

The Hyperion 12S charger can do as you described.

In all reality though, it can't charge it fast enough (only around 2.5 A at 12S).

So the fastest way to do it is to charge it separately with two separate charger that can handle 200 watts like the TP1010 or the Hyperion 12S charger. You can charge it at around 1.5C that way.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:01 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

I use a Thunder Power TP 1010C to charge the 6S 5000mah packs one at a time, and I use the TP210V balancer while I'm charging.
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:16 AM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

When you charge the batteries separately as 6s, how do you connect them later?

Do you connect in series two fully charged Lipos, is this a safe procedure?

I'm saying this because I read more than once that one should not connect two fully charged lipos in series after being charged separately.

According this I could do it as follows:

Charge two Lipos, letīs say 2 x Flight Power 6s 5000 mAh

Then, connect the two in series and we are ready to go!

Is it as simple as this?
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:31 AM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

These guys know their stuff on this setup! 12s is the way to go (2 6s packs)
there are 2 new options from hyperion on charging 2 6s batteries at once. (quickly)

the new 610i has 250w charging power and a built in balancer, 2 chargers can be sync together to charge 2 6s packs at up to 2c(10 amps on a 6s5000 pack)
http://www.allerc.com/product_info.p...oducts_id=3366

also coming soon is the new 610i duo charger that has 2 charge outputs(up to 6s each)
and integrated balancers, each output is 180w and thats enough to quickly charge a 6s 5000ma pack

the 610i is out now $169.95 each (2 needed to do whats described above)
both setups can run on 11-28 volts, I recomend 2 12v batteries in series as a supply

Now you just need $$$ and a good field battery or 2


and the duo will be out soon
http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/eos/
I fly 10s and 12s planes and I think the duo will be the best option
the 610i net is the best if: you have a great field power supply, and you are charging 6s 5000+ ma packs at max rates all the time.

Kevin
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:52 AM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

You'll probably need 2 charger to do it in a reasonable time. The reason being, you'll need around 400 watts of charging power to get the job done.

With the 12S Hyperion charger, you can do it as a 12S, but it can only charge up to 2.5A (if I recall).

So get 2 quality charger, and you'll be able to go up to 7A (which is fine in the field if your pack are being ballanced as it charges).
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:17 AM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

the 610i net setup with 2 chargers is 500w

the 610i duo (1 charger) is 360w (180w per output)

so its a little slower , but should be as fast as charging a 6s5000 pack on a 12s10i (180w)

Kevin
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:51 AM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

Wow!! Lots of really knowledgeable tips here!!

I sure revised a lot of the concepts I had concerning bigger electrics based on the tips here.

By the way, that Hyperion Duo charger sounds very very very good!! I just bought a 1210i and I'm really loving it. The Duo has just gotten into my wish list for the coming year....hehe
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:27 AM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

When you charge the batteries separately as 6s, how do you connect them later?

Do you connect in series two fully charged Lipos, is this a safe procedure?

I'm saying this because I read more than once that one should not connect two fully charged lipos in series after being charged separately.

According this I could do it as follows:

Charge two Lipos, letīs say 2 x Flight Power 6s 5000 mAh

Then, connect the two in series and we are ready to go!

Is it as simple as this?



Yep, it's just that simple. Fully charge both packs, then connect them to the ESC in series. Yes, the last connection will make a SNAP noise and spark. I'm not sure where you would have gotten the advice not to connect packs in series (?) since that's how giant scale planes have been done for years by everyone.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:05 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but do you connect the two lipos in series and them to the ESC, or do you connect one lipo to the ESC followed by the other. Or are both options possible?

Does the 5000 mAh are really enough for 8 min of flying time with the A60 18L?

Thanks for your help!
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:11 PM
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 88,5" - ELECTRIC!!

Either way - if you think about it for a minute, you'll see that it is, basically, the same thing, since the circuit is not complete until the last connection is made.

Yes, 8 minutes is conservative, I could go 10 and probably 11 if I wanted.
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