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Old 10-08-2019, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by A.Delaney View Post
But if you refuse to pay the fines........
Beats me. Let us know what happens

But I'm willing to bet that they just don't let it go.
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Old 10-08-2019, 05:58 AM
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tap....tap.tap... is this on?
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Originally Posted by dusturbd View Post
Will never put any remote ID on anything I own
So you are not going to get a smart phone?
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:05 AM
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....
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by JuStOnE View Post
....
+1

Tony
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Shawnlh View Post
You guys need to relax a little. We've had the 400' rule up here (Canada) for a while now. You know what it has done to our flying styles and competitions?
Absolutely Nothing.

You know how many enforcement officers have been reported checking altitudes at sanctioned fields?
Zero
Took the words out of my mouth!
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:35 AM
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tap....tap.tap... is this on?
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Maybe, but if there is a law in place, some of us actually choose to follow them
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:31 AM
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I have telemetry in a couple larger planes including altimeter. Problem is at some fields, Triple Tree being one of them, I am above 400' when I turn on. Is there some kind of device that is going to measure for AGL instead of sea level? And by the way all of my planes are big and I hardly ever hit 400' at my normal, in Florida, fields.
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:49 AM
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Well... if you ask me, and no one did, but I'll say it any way.. The FAA has zero data proving we're a threat to anyone. They are barking up the wrong tree, chasing the wrong dog. We aren't the problem, never have been the problem.

remote ID, testing and all this registration is a complete waste of time and energy, so is enforcement... because there have not been any real incidents of gross negligence at AMA clubs that have made news, for the most part. (Actually, I don't know of any since all this started) Furthermore, we are all flying at a club and one that's been there for a long time. People already know where we are...

They should have just exempted us all together... I'm not saying anything different than what anyone else thinks..
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:02 AM
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Reality is that the 400ft limit will not change things at rural fields for the most part. Where I fly my jets most of the time will never get FAA enforcement. The RFID thing could change that but again, if it isn't on out in the middle of nowhere, no one will know. What it can change is sanctioned events where enforcement could show up. The other thing that could get sticky is if some full scale guy flies a mile from your field at 600ft and sees a model higher than he is and calls the tower. Again, enforcement is not likely.

Too all the folks that think 400ft isn't a problem, well it isn't for park flyers and small 3d planes. It is impossible for patttern, IMAC, jets, sailplanes, etc. I have altimeters in a number of my planes and know how high I fly. Here is a video of me flying a plane breaking 400ft. Short of doing race track patterns, it will break 400ft.

PAF Opus V turbine being flown hard :) ! (0 min 36 sec)
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by acerc View Post
Is there some kind of device that is going to measure for AGL instead of sea level? And by the way all of my planes are big and I hardly ever hit 400' at my normal, in Florida, fields.
Yes, it is called an AS3000 "gyro". When it boots up, it assumes that is zero and with accelerometers it measures the altitude AGL . You would be surprised how easy it is to exceed 400 feet. My 120cc plane gets to that altitude in seconds (like 4-5ish seconds).
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:07 AM
why_fly_high is offline
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Originally Posted by erospawn View Post
Well... if you ask me, and no one did, but I'll say it any way.. The FAA has zero data proving we're a threat to anyone. They are barking up the wrong tree, chasing the wrong dog. We aren't the problem, never have been the problem.

remote ID, testing and all this registration is a complete waste of time and energy, so is enforcement... because there have not been any real incidents of gross negligence at AMA clubs that have made news, for the most part. (Actually, I don't know of any since all this started) Furthermore, we are all flying at a club and one that's been there for a long time. People already know where we are...

They should have just exempted us all together... I'm not saying anything different than what anyone else thinks..
You are completely correct. Here is the thing. The FAA doesn't really care. Drones, UAS, etc have already created more work for them than they wanted. Having different rules for different places and different types of rc flying is more work. It is easier to group them all together and give them all the same rules AND they can do it in the name of safety. 99% of the country doesn't care and will just think 400ft is enough for toy planes and they will feel safer knowing the FAA is helping keeping them safe.
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ghoffman View Post
Yes, it is called an AS3000 "gyro". When it boots up, it assumes that is zero and with accelerometers it measures the altitude AGL . You would be surprised how easy it is to exceed 400 feet. My 120cc plane gets to that altitude in seconds (like 4-5ish seconds).



You dont even need a gyro. Futaba, Spektrum and JR all have add on telemetry sensors that can do this for <$50 and read out the altitude on your transmitter.

600+ is possible just in a big simple loop on a 30-50cc bird (small by FG standards). A hard vertical into a hammerhead of KE spin would go higher. Heck I have even broke 1000 with my helicopters.

And the sailplane guys sometimes go over 2000....
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Old 10-08-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erospawn View Post
Well... if you ask me, and no one did, but I'll say it any way.. The FAA has zero data proving we're a threat to anyone. They are barking up the wrong tree, chasing the wrong dog. We aren't the problem, never have been the problem.

remote ID, testing and all this registration is a complete waste of time and energy, so is enforcement... because there have not been any real incidents of gross negligence at AMA clubs that have made news, for the most part. (Actually, I don't know of any since all this started) Furthermore, we are all flying at a club and one that's been there for a long time. People already know where we are...

They should have just exempted us all together... I'm not saying anything different than what anyone else thinks..
The FAA does not want to do anything about model aviation. They are fully aware it is a complete waste of their time and resources to wander down this path. They are being forced to do something by higher government entities and lobbyists, and an overzealous Air Traffic Controller Organization. This is merely an opportunity for us to provide sufficient public backlash for the FAA to re-evaluate a much better and favorable position for us modelers.
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by exeter_acres View Post
Maybe, but if there is a law in place, some of us actually choose to follow them
Until someone approaches me at my field or at an event Iím not gonna worry about it.. and besides I hardly stay above 400í for more than a couple seconds... if I was flying jets I might give a squat about this thread!
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:45 AM
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Interesting conversation. Cant help but add my 2c.



1. Altitude telemetry is not a standard on most modern radios. It can be added. The most accurate is GPS, but its not that great depending on the location and number of satellites relative to your aircraft. The cheap barometers on flight controllers and some of the new spekky stuff are really inaccurate but give you a good ball park. The expensive pitot/static systems are pretty good, but they aint cheap or easy to install properly. None of the add on telemetry are accurate enough to stand up in court... the DJI stuff maybe.. but .. idk



2. 400 feet is higher than you think, I cant speak for gliders, I believe what those that fly them regularly say - that they bust 400ft often. As far as IMAC aircraft go however, its not as often as you think, but it does happen. Consider this, at 60 mph, you travel 88 feet per second, therefore, it would take 4.5 seconds to exceed 400 feet if you maintained vertical and 60MPH. The real question is how will it be enforced in uncontrolled airspace? I dont see the technology, will, or budget, to impose it on us any time soon. My personal opinion given the evidence from other countries that have the 400 ft rule is it wont be enforced unless you do something stupid, but I think there are SIGS that will have big problems with a 400 ft ceiling, and some that will have to adjust competition in significant ways.



3. AMA, MultiGP, DRL, and every modeling organization with a dog in the fight doesn't come close to the number of people and the amount of money on the other side of the table trying to keep us out of the way of drone deliveries or the security risk model aircraft impose. AMA is doing a pretty good job when you consider what they are up against.


4. This one is most important - Did you all forget not 3 months ago, the FAA put the kabash on ALL model activity in controlled airspace - EXCEPT for those registered AMA fields? There is no way no how the FAA is ever going to raise the altitudes imposed in controlled airspace on the UAS maps - and with good reason! At least with LAANC we can fly in controlled airspace again. Hopefully AMA can get enough folks to bug congress to allow some latitude in uncontrolled airspace above 400 feet by whining loud enough over the controlled airspace restrictions... hopefully... but I'm not holding my breath.


IMO, things will continue to change, the hobby wont die, and my post here wont make any difference at all.
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