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Old 09-07-2010, 01:17 PM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

A slow Roll done correctly should earn a 10 just like a lighting fast roll done correctly !
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:28 PM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

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Originally Posted by sherman89 View Post
I have discussed this topic with several Nat level judges and they all agree that there is no criteria for the roll other than a constant roll rate but most did say that a slow roll done correctly in the basic sequence would probably earn an extra point or 2.
This statement in self contradictory.

I submit that any "NATS level" judge who said this has no business judging the NATS, or any other contest, until they learn how to properly apply the actual criteria presented in the rules.
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:31 PM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

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A slow Roll done correctly should earn a 10 just like a lighting fast roll done correctly !
Hi Mark, I agree with you 100% I am cranking up the west coast and so far it is working.
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:59 PM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

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As you say there is no criteria for the roll rate but as a judge the slow roll executed properly will get a higher score from me than a fast roll done equally as well.
As a judge if you don't see a reason for any deductions for a roll according to the rules then that roll must be scored a 10. I think you would agree with that. Using your logic are you then going to give a perfect slow roll a 12 because it was more difficult? I hope I never drive 500 miles to a contest and find you sitting in the judge's chair behind me making up your own scoring criteria!
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:14 PM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

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Hi Mark, I agree with you 100% I am cranking up the west coast and so far it is working.
Whatever floats your boat. My reason for taking the time to answer your now self admitted troll posts is that there are no doubt people out here who will read them and think there is some truth to them.
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:10 PM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

I'm in agreement with Judge. When judging, if you cannot site a specific criterea in the rules then no deduction should be given. It is as simple as that. Leave your personal preferences of what looks better out of the judges chair. There is enough judging variance caused by how people see things. We don't need to compound this with personal preferences, and distortion of the criterea. You do need to be aware that there are often differences in criterea between the various disciplines of model aerobatics.

In IMAC there is NO DEDUCTION for how fast a roll is done.

In the FAI Sporting Code, the term "Slow Roll" is used only to define an aileron roll as opposed to a "Flick" (snap) Roll. No criterea as to what the rate of roll should be.
http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/sys...ics_10_Rev.pdf

IN AMA Pattern there is a criterea for a "slow roll", it must be a minimum of 3 secounds for a 360 degree roll. By this criterea, if a roll is done in 3 seconds, or 6 seconds, it is given the same score, even if the 6 second roll is harder to do and looks better.

Slow Roll: Model rolls slowly through one (1) complete revolution, in either direction; maneuver takes longer than three (3) seconds. Center is when model has rolled exactly 180 degrees. Downgrades:
1. Changes in heading.
2. Changes in altitude.
3. Roll rate not constant.
4. Model does not roll exactly 360 degrees.

See page 28 in this link. http://www.modelaircraft.org/UserFil...Aerobatics.pdf

IMAC, and NSRCA have spent a great deal of effort to get the criterea published in ways to make it easy to learn. Take advantage of it, research before you post, and spread the wrong information.

Given the above information we can see that try as they might, the authors of the rules are not 100% clear. If someone flying AMA Pattern does a "Roll" that takes only 2 seconds, what is the deduction? Would it be appropriate to give him a zero, because by definition he didn't do the perscribed manuever, a "Slow Roll"?
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:50 PM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

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Originally Posted by 1bwana1 View Post
I'm in agreement with Judge. When judging, if you cannot site a specific criterea in the rules then no deduction should be given. It is as simple as that. Leave your personal preferences of what looks better out of the judges chair. There is enough judging variance caused by how people see things. We don't need to compound this with personal preferences, and distortion of the criterea. You do need to be aware that there are often differences in criterea between the various disciplines of model aerobatics.

In IMAC there is NO DEDUCTION for how fast a roll is done.

In the FAI Sporting Code, the term "Slow Roll" is used only to define an aileron roll as opposed to a "Flick" (snap) Roll. No criterea as to what the rate of roll should be.
http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/sys...ics_10_Rev.pdf

IN AMA Pattern there is a criterea for a "slow roll", it must be a minimum of 3 secounds for a 360 degree roll. By this criterea, if a roll is done in 3 seconds, or 6 seconds, it is given the same score, even if the 6 second roll is harder to do and looks better.

Slow Roll: Model rolls slowly through one (1) complete revolution, in either direction; maneuver takes longer than three (3) seconds. Center is when model has rolled exactly 180 degrees. Downgrades:
1. Changes in heading.
2. Changes in altitude.
3. Roll rate not constant.
4. Model does not roll exactly 360 degrees.

See page 28 in this link. http://www.modelaircraft.org/UserFil...Aerobatics.pdf

IMAC, and NSRCA have spent a great deal of effort to get the criterea published in ways to make it easy to learn. Take advantage of it, research before you post, and spread the wrong information.

Given the above information we can see that try as they might, the authors of the rules are not 100% clear. If someone flying AMA Pattern does a "Roll" that takes only 2 seconds, what is the deduction? Would it be appropriate to give him a zero, because by definition he didn't do the perscribed manuever, a "Slow Roll"?
That's a great input, As i recall All NATIONALS Were done as such. Slow roll was counted as a " 4 " second roll, when i was competing, Maintain altitude at all the time, Entry and Exit altitude, as a matter of fact i use to carry the AMA rule book for all the classes and the complete description of all of them, There used to be a section that had all the downgrades, including the half point to a full point to description of Zero.
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:51 PM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

Ummm, guys, the question was asked about starting IMAC and you guys are beating your chest about judging and other ****, I just love forums, way to deter a potential IMAC pilot, hahahaha!!!! carry on now girls!!!
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:57 PM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

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Ummm, guys, the question was asked about starting IMAC and you guys are beating your chest about judging and other ****, I just love forums, way to deter a potential IMAC pilot, hahahaha!!!! carry on now girls!!!
So start it, don't cry when you score below what you think Either
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:58 PM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

Seems to me that making certain that new people have the correct information relative to judging criteria would be a worthwhile thing. Maybe I'm wrong on that.
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:14 PM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

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Seems to me that making certain that new people have the correct information relative to judging criteria would be a worthwhile thing. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

NOPE, you are absolutely correct.....
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:31 PM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

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So start it, don't cry when you score below what you think Either
2 Flips on the choke and pop, 1 flip and she always starts!!!!
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:43 AM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

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2 Flips on the choke and pop, 1 flip and she always starts!!!!
I guess Hand start is still in style
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:41 AM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

Hi Guys,

I started this thread, and nothing that ANYONE has said has deterred me from starting IMACin any way. Through this thread i have been in contact with some other IMAC flyers who are within an hour or so's drive from where i live. People have e-mailed me the basic arseti schedule, info on understanding arseti diagrams, and offered to help me with schedule demos and advice. So no, nothing has deterred me from flying in IMAC competitions. Them next local comp is in about 3 weeks, and while i'm not 100% sure i can make this one, i will certainly compete in the following one.

Cheers for all the help and advice and constructive discussions everyone, keep it coming

David
Levin, New Zealand
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:00 PM
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Re: Wanting to start pattern/imac in sportsman class,

Good News mate. Flying is what you make it. I hope to get to the Norsewood event if time allows ( practice time ). There is also the Tokaroa take off that sounds like a good day out. May see you there. Rod and Dom are full of good info.
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