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Old 08-29-2008, 03:19 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

You know, you can still write in a candidate's name on the ballot come November. No one has to settle for the "lesser of two evils".

Neither one of them is going to do this country any good. Obama will cause taxes and costs to go up with his ludicrous health care plan, and McCain will cause taxes and costs to go up with his warmonger mentality. Both of them talk the big talk and propose ludicrous plans but they neglect to follow them down the line and tell you where the buck STOPS- and I promise you all, it's gonna stop when it hits your wallet. The ONLY way to reduce taxes is to reduce government- and with current politics and politicians, it'll be a cold day in hell before they actually vote to make REAL change- that being, making government smaller. A smaller, more efficient federal goverment, with much power reverting back to the states (where it was originally Constitutionally designed to be), is not going to happen, not with the current crop of career politicians.

Obama is a half-out-of-the-closet socialist, and if you've ever read The Communist Manifesto you'd understand that he is, with a touch of budding Bolshevik in him too. And I really don't give two ****s that McCain was a POW- sorry bout his luck, but the fact he was a POW during Vietnam means jack **** when it comes to his ability to lead a country. Remove that aspect of his 'credentials' and you have a career-long flip-flopper who takes and makes no stand on anything that doesn't eventually do something for him or his cronies.

Don't get me wrong, I respect him for his service and really do feel bad for his 5 years in Hanoi- but none of that equates to ANY inherent ability or predisposition to being commander-in-chief. And when he insists that he will follow bin Laden "to the gates of hell", then what good does it do to maintain a massive military presence in Iraq, of all places, where bin Laden and al-Qaeda have NEVER set up shop?

I watched all of the DNC, and I'll watch all of the RNC too. And I assure you that I will be voting for none of them. The only reason I watch is that in order to defeat your enemy, it is best to know them first. (Sun Tzu said something to that effect in The Art of War.)

Right about now, I would love to see T. Boone Pickens announce a bid for candidacy. At least the man is genuine.

Or maybe I'd vote for this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QovBLFZhQME
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:44 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

That's a funny video. Not very accurate, but funny. 3D I agree with you on most of your points but would point out to you that, although McCain's prior service and imprisonment may not be a qualification for President, it would certainly make him more qualified to confront the decision to start a war. Despite what most people think, military people are not out looking for another war to fight. They have families just like you do. They are just willing to fight them when they start. That was Bush's problem. That little coward hid behind daddy's money in a guard unit and then tried to play the big bad veteran. He's really a closet psychopath who only sought to gain control of Iraq's oil fields. I really don't think you will find McCain as quick to send soldiers to fight having been there himself. I do think he will have the guts to stand up to those we need to stand up to though. Big difference. As for Obama, he's in Oz somewhere with Dorothy and Toto.

BTW Judge, I was referring to the half of the chart with Obama's tax cuts on it and never meant to imply he was actually smart enough to make a whole chart without the aid of a teleprompter and five handlers.
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:04 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

i'm not sure that voting for someone (a write in) that you know will not win makes a great statement. i'm not saying that anyone has to conform! don't get me wrong, i'm all about making a statement and making a difference.... but, realizing that one of the two is going to win and hold the office of the president, you must like one more than the other for your personal situation. make your difference there. voting for a write in only disassociates you from future blame or credit. it does not make a difference in your favor! i don't think anyone with 1/2 a brain would or could say that they support their candidate on EVERY issue. that just isn't realisitic. i don't support mccain on every single thing he says. BUT, i do know that my money, (my real dollars) are better looked after with a conservative in office. i do know that we NEED a military to be properly funded. i know that we ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT afford worse health "care" at a higher price than we have now! who in their right mind would agree to pay more out of their pocket for shabbier care and availability for themselves just to get some shoddy care for someone who ISN'T paying for it at all? C'mon, even the most liberal people in the world would be against this at home, with nobody listening!
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:05 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

delete post.
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:25 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

I lived in England for 9 years and my wife is from London. I have experienced their health care first hand and believe me you don't want it. New Zealand is having the same problems with their health care. On one visit to the emergency room of the local hospital I actually had a doctor walk into the examining room wiping grease from his hands on a rag from working on his car. Without examining me he whispered into the nurses ear and she promptly gave me a bottle with four aspirin in it and sent me packing. I had been diving and was suffering from skin bends. On the other occasion I had blood poisoning in my femoral artery. I was given two pills and told to go home. Right pills, not nearly enough, no put your leg up and put ice packs on it or anything else. It is really dismal. I'm sure any of our friends from the UK or New Zealand can back me up on that point.

As long as I'm here, here is a point to ponder, why does everyone call Obama a black man? His mother was white and he was raised by his white grandparents. Think maybe HIS party is playing the race card for all it's worth?
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:37 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

amen once again Al!!!!
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:38 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge View Post
Just to be clear, it is not "Obama's chart". It was generated by the Washington Post. And it still amuses me how those who will benefit the least under a McCain Presidency seem to be his most ardent supporters. This is the true genius of the GOP.
Judge,

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to assign authorship, just identify the chart that represent Obama's view.

I am definitely in the group that would benefit most from McCain's plan. I am also sure that I will find a way to mitigate the damages to me from Obama's plan, even if it meant transferring assets, and companies offshore. The point is, I refuse to have my wealth re-distributed by the Democrats. I , like Ted Kennedy is proving, will also always be able to afford private health insurance. The middle class will pay for the poor in both higher taxes, and reduced benefits. It has always been so, and will always be so. I think it is unfair, I can't believe people haven't caught on to this big lie by the Democratic Party.
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:49 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

Yes 1bwana1 and that's what keeps every doctor on Harley street in business. People with money in England only go to private doctors and private hospitals. Including the politicians and the royal family.
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:01 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

very well put 1bwana1
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:15 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

If McCain gets into office we can look forward to more military protracted military conflicts. It is in my financial interest for McCain to win, but with my wife being deployed 3 times for Operation Iraqi Freedom, I am giving a big glorious middle finger to the GOP. This election is more about my pocket book. Country first is right. That is why I am not voting for McCain.
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:22 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

Just take a moment and think of those government agencies you have to deal with. The DMV, Building Department, Tax Agencies, Traffic Courts, Public School Systems. Now compare those experiences to private companies you deal with. My experience is that when I deal with a government agency, they are an obstacle I must overcome. When I deal with a quality private company, that wants to please me in order to earn my business, I get help not bureaucracy. Which of those experiences do we want our health care experience to be patterned after? Pretty easy choice huh?

The only people a government health organization will benefit, are those that will now get something for free that they were unable to afford before. For the rest of us, it will be a reduction in quality.

Even with the load placed on our current system by the poor, and illegals, most of us suffer a loss of quality in health care. How long do you wait to get an appointment these days. How long did you sit in the emergency room the last time you had to go? Imagine what it will be like when it is a government program entirely.

I, and many of my friends here in San Diego pay our best local hospital/medical group a fee each year in addition to our health insurance plans. This guarantees us a return phone call by a Doctor within 15 minutes, instant access to appointments with our Doctors, and no waiting when we go to the emergency room, among other benefits. I realize this isn't possible for most people, but imagine how bad it's going to get for the middle class, when they get the same service as the non-producers. You can't bring everyone up, you can only bring the rest down. In fact, why bother working to be middle class, if it doesn't get you better benefits?
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:51 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokin View Post
i'm not sure that voting for someone (a write in) that you know will not win makes a great statement. i'm not saying that anyone has to conform! don't get me wrong, i'm all about making a statement and making a difference.... but, realizing that one of the two is going to win and hold the office of the president, you must like one more than the other for your personal situation. make your difference there. voting for a write in only disassociates you from future blame or credit. it does not make a difference in your favor!
Smokin- what you need to understand is that my decision is not based on making a statement. It is based entirely on personal principle and beliefs, and having to live with my own choices. Knowing what I know about the current nominees, I am quite certain that if I were to vote for either of them, I would forever be angry with myself for voting for whomever would be best "for my personal situation", as you put it. I would rather vote for a man who I know to have integrity, and who I know believes in much of the same things I do, despite the fact he has no chance of winning. And that, my friend, makes ALL the difference in my favor, because I'll be able to sleep at night knowing that my vote went to the man I believe should be president, regardless of the fact that he lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bwana1 View Post
Just take a moment and think of those government agencies you have to deal with. The DMV, Building Department, Tax Agencies, Traffic Courts, Public School Systems. Now compare those experiences to private companies you deal with. My experience is that when I deal with a government agency, they are an obstacle I must overcome. When I deal with a quality private company, that wants to please me in order to earn my business, I get help not bureaucracy. Which of those experiences do we want our health care experience to be patterned after? Pretty easy choice huh?

The only people a government health organization will benefit, are those that will now get something for free that they were unable to afford before. For the rest of us, it will be a reduction in quality.
1bwana1- Spot on. Bureaucracy begets more bureaucracy, it's the nature of the beast. The last thing we need in this country is more of it- and with a government-run health care system, the bureaucracy will end up (as I'm sure it has in other countries with government health care) wasting all of the tax money intended for health care, in the process of enlarging it's bureaucratic self.

I am not as fortunate as you, to have quality health care. I've never had insurance, and never expect to be able to afford it. Rest assured, however, I will NEVER be one of those 'milk-the-government-teat-for-all-its-worth' freeloaders. Middle class or not(feeling rather lower-middle lately), I'll pay my own way no matter what, come hell or high water. I had a hard time (mentally) filing for unemployment last year when I was laid off for 5 months...I refuse to get in a welfare line for government handouts which I believe ought to be illegal anyhow. Welfare is a socialist program and I will never participate. Everyone needs to carry their own damn weight and quit making the rest of us do it for them, and Obama is just going to lay on the Welfare State agenda ticker than it's ever been.

(I think Obama is going to win, despite McCain's odd(??) choice of MILF Palin.)
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:05 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

meatshield...

believe me, i certainly respect your feelings about wanting to sleep at night. i also respect your ability to stick with your principles! everything you have typed in response to my post is impossible to argue with. i am just looking at things a bit differently.... i need to protect my interests and those of my employess as best as i can with the cards dealt me. one of these two choices represents a taxation situation that could force me to let a couple of my people go. i do NOT agree with mccain on everything (as i stated before) but i feel that the conservative choice here is the best for my company and my family. now, others may disagree about what is best for themselves and their families...these are my views and i appreciate the right to discuss them. good luck in all of your ventures and may you never "need" geat health care!
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:20 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

OK, now I understand your reasoning a bit better. I, myself, am just a divorced guy with a dog, working for someone else. I don't have a company or employees to contend with. While your situation is definitely different, I would be hard pressed to change my mind were we to swap shoes. I don't fault you for your logic, nor the necessity of your choices. Who I hold fault and accountability towards is every double-talking politician who tells you what you want and/or need to hear in order to get elected, then forgets all of those campaign promises once they achieve their own goal.

I don't believe anyone, in any situation, is going to be better off after this election, no matter which one wins. These guys just cannot follow through on their grandiose ideas without causing and/or suffering severe repercussions down the line. The bureaucracy is far too entrenched in society and being the monster that it is, we need to cut the head off of it in order to kill the beast as we know it. Neither is going to be able to "rob Peter to pay Paul", which is the only way their so-called tax breaks are going to be able to work, because Peter will enlist countless congressmen and senators to form exploratory committees to prove why Paul shouldn't be able to take Peter's funds for program X, because Peter's program Z is entirely necessary and without program Z, demographic Y will falter and suffer.

See what I mean? Its all smoke and mirrors with their campaign promises, and we the people are caught holding the bag at the carnival.
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:22 PM
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Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

meat, we actually agree on just about everything here. i am not thrilled with my choices here either. i just know that if i fold, i'll lose my initial bet. if i continue and play the mediocre hand i was dealt....i've got a shot at some winnings.

poor example i know. i just don't want the worst to happen while i attempt the impossible.

i was a big supporter of ron paul. i really like the defense of the bill of rights and the constitution and i do NOT believe that either of these are "outdated".

I want LESS GOVT!

I don't believe that the govt will be as good with mccain as it would have been with ron paul (again, my opinion) but i do think it will be less controlling than it would be with Obummer.

as i see it, there hasn't been a liberal administration that brought about "less govt" yet. why would it be that way now. it isn't even a goal of theirs. control the money, control the health care, control the stock market (hillary).... they want the govt to be in business. let me tell ya something....the govt sucks as a business! i don't need them to be a business. i need them to provide safe and predictable living conditions.
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Last edited by smokin; 08-29-2008 at 07:26 PM. Reason: added to it
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