logo
Thread Tools
This thread is privately moderated by 03fomoco, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.
Old 08-29-2008, 10:12 AM
1bwana1 is offline
Find More Posts by 1bwana1
Bad-ass Super Contributor!
1bwana1's Avatar
La Jolla, CA USA
Joined Oct 2006
2,715 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

So both are saying they will give the vast majority a tax cut. Both saying they will increase benefits as well. It's just not adding up to me. I guess it depends on what you call a tax.

Obama wants to increase "contributions" to Social Security by eliminating the cap. That is a huge increase for those making above $100,000 (and their employers) that is not reflected in the charts Judge posted.

Obama is going to provide universal health care. Your contributions to this new health system, are not a tax in these charts, they are a premium. Do you really think you will be getting a better level of care when the health insurance money, and health resources, are being re-distributed to those who are not contributing as much as you are. No way!

On the good side from Obama is his plan to make the capital gains tax rate zero up to $250,000. That could be a real bonus to the rich. Understand that those who make a lot of money are much more able to control how they take money than a guy on salary. I can see a plan where earned income is taken to the amount that returns maximum return on Social Security. At my age (55) contributing the an amount that assures max benefits provides incredible returns at retirement. Then a calculation would be made where "soft losses" such as deprecations, and investment credits, where another good amount of income would be tax free. The balance of income needed to support a desired lifestyle would be taken as Capital Gains. The rest would be held in assets that grow, but gains are not realized. The effect tax rate on large income would be in the 10% to 15% range.

The fact is that as long as both parties are supporting a complex tax structure similar to what we have today, there will never be an equitable distribution of contributions and benefits. The large middle class will pay the most, and receive the least. The brains in the private sector are always better than those in the public sector. The lawyers are better, the accountants are better, and the policy makers are better. The government is only capable of screwing the middle class. Aren't you all getting tired of that?
1bwana1 is offline Find More Posts by 1bwana1
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-29-2008, 10:28 AM
Al Lewis is offline
Find More Posts by Al Lewis
Registered User
Al Lewis's Avatar
Port Orchard, WA
Joined Nov 2007
6,911 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

Another point on Obama's chart is that he says he's going to give the highest percentage of cut to those under $18,981.00. What he doesn't say is that the majority of people under that level don't pay any taxes now and get all of their withholding back at the end of the year. In real numbers the tax cut in that respect affects very few people with regards to what they pay now which is zero. Also, as 1bwana1 pointed out, the wealthy have the ability to manipulate their incomes and the taxes they pay on them. By the time you add in Obama's social security increase and, what will have to be a new Health Tax for health coverage, the middle income will get royally screwed.
Al Lewis is offline Find More Posts by Al Lewis
Last edited by Al Lewis; 08-29-2008 at 10:46 AM.
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-29-2008, 11:05 AM
Ed Hornbuckle is offline
Find More Posts by Ed Hornbuckle
Doo It! Doo It!
Ed Hornbuckle's Avatar
Texas, United States of North Mexico
Joined Jul 2007
270 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Lewis View Post
Another point on Obama's chart is that he says he's going to give the highest percentage of cut to those under $18,981.00. What he doesn't say is that the majority of people under that level don't pay any taxes now and get all of their withholding back at the end of the year. In real numbers the tax cut in that respect affects very few people with regards to what they pay now which is zero. Also, as 1bwana1 pointed out, the wealthy have the ability to manipulate their incomes and the taxes they pay on them. By the time you add in Obama's social security increase and, what will have to be a new Health Tax for health coverage, the middle income will get royally screwed.
I know. The dems claim that they are for the middle class, but most of thier policies screw the middle class. I don't undestand why the libs just don't get it. Look at California, 30 years of dem rule and what do the middle class have there?

High cost of living and housing, high fuel costs, high medical costs, high insurance costs, high taxes, high crime, overcrowding and congested traffic and last but not least, overrun by illegals.

Gee now that sounds like fun for the middle class...
Ed Hornbuckle is offline Find More Posts by Ed Hornbuckle
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-29-2008, 11:18 AM
Al Lewis is offline
Find More Posts by Al Lewis
Registered User
Al Lewis's Avatar
Port Orchard, WA
Joined Nov 2007
6,911 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

On the other side of the coin, McCain's tax cuts are very top heavy. Normally I would agree that cutting taxes on the wealthy would encourage investment creating new jobs however, since NAFTA the only new jobs being created are those south of the border with most new products being contracted through China to maximize profits and even basic service positions moving into India and other foreign countries. BTW, that new found wealth has them all driving cars now and driving up our oil prices. I got quite a kick out of Boeing's contention that losing the tanker contract would put thousands of Americans out of work considering that they moved their plants to South Africa and Japan and planned on just assembling the planes here the same as Northrup did. In actual fact, my biggest concern in this election has nothing to do with taxes or social programs but with the security of this country. If you listen to Obama talk on what his plans are he is either stupid or extremely naive. In either case he would pose a threat to the security of this country.
Al Lewis is offline Find More Posts by Al Lewis
Last edited by Al Lewis; 08-29-2008 at 11:27 AM.
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-29-2008, 12:49 PM
KrisW is offline
Find More Posts by KrisW
Eccentricus Magnus
KrisW's Avatar
United States, VA, Richmond
Joined Jan 2006
3,646 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

The Democrats may as well not even run. . .McCain-Palin is a slam dunk. No matter how you feel about McCain or the issues. . the presence of Governor Palin just clinched it.
KrisW is offline Find More Posts by KrisW
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-29-2008, 01:07 PM
Craven is offline
Find More Posts by Craven
Registered User
United States, KY, Fort Mitchell
Joined Feb 2006
10,849 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Lewis View Post
Well this should get the fur flying! LOL

http://www.newser.com/story/36165/mc...-for-veep.html

The Republican Vice President pick.
Oh, hot mama.....what I could do with her!
Craven is offline Find More Posts by Craven
Quick reply to this message (Disabled)
Old 08-29-2008, 01:21 PM
Al Lewis is offline
Find More Posts by Al Lewis
Registered User
Al Lewis's Avatar
Port Orchard, WA
Joined Nov 2007
6,911 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

Not only a good politician, way into reform, but a former Miss Alaska. LOL
Al Lewis is offline Find More Posts by Al Lewis
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-29-2008, 01:34 PM
Al Lewis is offline
Find More Posts by Al Lewis
Registered User
Al Lewis's Avatar
Port Orchard, WA
Joined Nov 2007
6,911 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

Oh, this is great!! Dems don't have a prayer with these lines. Straight from the AP desk.

http://www.newser.com/story/36177/pa...ngton-mac.html
Al Lewis is offline Find More Posts by Al Lewis
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-29-2008, 01:44 PM
smokin is offline
Find More Posts by smokin
Registered User
smokin's Avatar
clinton, ia. usa
Joined Oct 2007
5,198 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

AL, i agree whole heartedly!!!!!! the less than $18K or so earners are already getting ALL of their $$$ back. in a plan that helps them even more... don't they start making money on the govt? (the rest of us, that is!) i haven't anything at all against treating those that make the most money with the "kid gloves" when it comes to taxes.... they provide the jobs for the rest of us!

there are severla cliches out there about any and all topics....one that really hits home here is......

Give $1,000,000 to a poor man and he will again be poor!
Take $1,000,000 away from a man with a million and he will sooner than later have the $1,000,000 again!

people are NOT equal when it comes to ingenuity, drive, talent, and desire!!!!!!!! we should never punish those who succeed to pay those who do not!

Obummer said last night that it was time for people to deal with what happens to them even if it is failure!!!!!!!! "even if it is failure". what about that equals more taxes for the middle/upper class and less for the poor? this guy is a joke!
smokin is offline Find More Posts by smokin
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-29-2008, 01:49 PM
Al Lewis is offline
Find More Posts by Al Lewis
Registered User
Al Lewis's Avatar
Port Orchard, WA
Joined Nov 2007
6,911 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokin
Obummer said last night that it was time for people to deal with what happens to them even if it is failure!!!!!!!! "even if it is failure".
Guess that means no more welfare then!
Al Lewis is offline Find More Posts by Al Lewis
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-29-2008, 02:05 PM
smokin is offline
Find More Posts by smokin
Registered User
smokin's Avatar
clinton, ia. usa
Joined Oct 2007
5,198 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

yeah.... wouldn't that be nice! i promise he only meant those with money had to accept their failures and then give even more to those without!
smokin is offline Find More Posts by smokin
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-29-2008, 02:25 PM
Judge is offline
Find More Posts by Judge
Team Futaba
Judge's Avatar
United States, CA, Ladera Ranch
Joined Jan 2006
11,550 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Lewis View Post
Another point on Obama's chart
Just to be clear, it is not "Obama's chart". It was generated by the Washington Post. And it still amuses me how those who will benefit the least under a McCain Presidency seem to be his most ardent supporters. This is the true genius of the GOP.
Judge is offline Find More Posts by Judge
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-29-2008, 02:52 PM
KrisW is offline
Find More Posts by KrisW
Eccentricus Magnus
KrisW's Avatar
United States, VA, Richmond
Joined Jan 2006
3,646 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge View Post
Just to be clear, it is not "Obama's chart". It was generated by the Washington Post. And it still amuses me how those who will benefit the least under a McCain Presidency seem to be his most ardent supporters. This is the true genius of the GOP.

Bill .. please define "benefit" . . .

Obama will let taxes lapse back to their pre-cut levels. . that's a 5% increase for me.
Obama will cut our military, and allow Iraq to disintegrate . .that's a bad thing

Obama will talk with terrorist Iran .. .and allow them nukes. . .dying in a nuclear war is not my idea of a "benefit". .

Obama will not allow domestic oil exploration $6/gallon gas is NOT a Benefit

Obama will promote and pass Universal Health Care. . NOT A BENEFIT for me. . higher cost, less coverage, worse care. . all a no-no for me.

So. please, Bill. . Define "benefit" for all of us. . . . I will not benefit a bit from an Obama presidency.
KrisW is offline Find More Posts by KrisW
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-29-2008, 02:57 PM
smokin is offline
Find More Posts by smokin
Registered User
smokin's Avatar
clinton, ia. usa
Joined Oct 2007
5,198 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

the mccain supporters do NOT want the unmentioned taxes of the "free health care" and the welfare increases that the "haves" pay for!!!!!!! when looking at the chart, you don't see all of the items that the liberals don't call "taxes".
smokin is offline Find More Posts by smokin
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-29-2008, 02:58 PM
smokin is offline
Find More Posts by smokin
Registered User
smokin's Avatar
clinton, ia. usa
Joined Oct 2007
5,198 Posts
Re: American Airlines, Ford Trucks, 135 a barrel, getting nervous here!

well put Kris!
smokin is offline Find More Posts by smokin
Quick reply to this message


Quick Reply
Message:


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools