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View Poll Results: What do you do with your LIPO packs
Charge them to 100% on the day of using them 11 47.83%
charge them and keep them at 100% no matter what 1 4.35%
keep at storage charge or less when not in use 16 69.57%
ok to keep fully charged for over 24 hours but not more than 72 hours 8 34.78%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-12-2021, 01:39 AM
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My experience tells me that lower C rated LiPo's don't have as much of a problem with a higher storage charge. e.g. ember the first little LiPo's for foamies, 12C maybe if you spent a bunch more money, a 15C. You could leave those little puppies charged for whatever works for you.

Most of my electric flying for the last eight years or so, has been electric powered F3A using 10S packs made from two 5S in series. My friends who are actually real F3A competitors and will not use any batteries with a higher than 25C discharge rating because as the C rating goes up, so does the weight. Those do not seem to be really fussy but you cannot leave them charged indefinitely but a couple of days isn't going to hurt anything.

I run 35C's as I'm not a serious competitor and those give me enough head room to fly a sequence in a wind without worrying that I'll kill batteries before the sequence is completed or I'm able to land.

45 or 50C packs for my sport models are much more fussy. One day, okay but no more or they start puffing while just sitting. As I've started playing with some 60 or 70C 6S for ducted fan stuff, those get discharged when I get home; same day no excuses or you'll be replacing spendy batteries if not a fire.

JMHO based on my experience.

Oh, bye the way; most of my charging is done using CellPro series chargers and if you run a discharge with a 10XP, it only pulls a 100W and it takes forever. CellPro also pulls the cells down to 3.79 volts and balances them.

I've got a 4010 Duo as it will do series charging and a 10S battery pack like the CellPro's but I'm scared of it. The CellPro will check to see that things are plugged in correctly or it won't start. Not know that was uncommon, I let the magic smoke out of a charge board one day and have not used it since. I AM NOT a parallel charging fan. I got one of those new Revolectrix Dual PowerLab 8's all setup in a case and it came with no manual, no link to a manual that I can find on the website and it seems that I pissed off the folks at Revolectrix since after waiting from January of 2020 to September of last year and no charger, I wanted a refund. Remember, Revolectrix runs all their business out of the overseas office, USA credit card rules do not apply and they charge your card when you backorder something; they didn't want to give me a refund, said the chargers would "be in any day" as they'd done for the 9 months previously.

Bottom line for me: I do not like any of the currently available chargers for one reason or another.
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Old 05-12-2021, 10:35 AM
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That's at least a 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orthobird View Post
I am using a PW that is 24 volts at 67 amps

but I set the amp rate for charging at 5 when I have all the batteries hooked up.

What i do not know is, is the 5 amps for all or is it per each battery?

This is my 1st time using the Icharger.

so lets say I am charging 4 batteries parallel, do i set the rate at 20 amps??

each battery is 5S at 5100 Mah
Cam,

The 5 amps is for all the batteries. When you charge in parallel, it the total of all the batteries. 4 X 5100=24400mAh If you charge at 1C you would be charging at 24.4 amps. Your iCharger 4010 duo is capable of charging a 10S at 40 amps.(this depends on your power supply, of course). If you want to charge the same 5s 5100x4 batteries at 1.3C you would set 31.7 amps to charge.

Dan

PS Iím not a fan of charging any LiPo battery on a flammable surface, such as your wood work bench. Even if you are in your shop when doing so, the speed at which the batteries burn and set each other off is very fast. I have sand and a Halon fire extinguisher readily available when I charge in my garage.
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Old 05-13-2021, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orthobird View Post
1. if you charge LIPO batteries to max capacity, you should use them on the same day. IF you leave LIPO batteries fully charged for some time, (I do not know this time), then the batteries can get damaged and then they puff.
Hi Cam, I've been doing this for a long time so maybe my lousy $0.02 may be of some contribution to your query.

LiPo batteries are fickle beasts, and 100% of them are assembled by humans (in one way or another). Due to this, not every single cell will perform exactly the same, which means there may be inconsistencies in product testing from battery to battery, or even cell to cell. Cells are generally matched to each other based off of capacity, and not every cell will bear exactly the number printed on it (for example, a 3200mah cell could be 3157mah, or 3361mah in actual capacity). Because of these inconsistencies, there will never be an exact answer to just how long can you safely leave a LiPo fully charged?

Because of this, us armchair aficionados are only able to provide rough timeframes on how long a battery can be left charged. In my experience, my vast collection of lithium batteries seem to be OK with being left fully charged for up to ~48 hours before some form of permanent damage takes place. Beyond that, puffing can start to occur and of course this means the pack will degrade at an accelerated rate from there on out. With this being said, one also has to take into consideration the performance level of the battery. High performance, or high-c rated batteries seem to be far more prone to long-term damage by being left fully charged for long periods of time, whereas low-c rated batteries for receiver applications seem to be less affected by being charged. One thing is for certain: leaving LiPo's fully charged for long periods of time will absolutely affect them negatively. The only variable that cannot be determined at this point is how much?

It is then considered a safe and efficient practice to not leave your batteries fully charged for longer periods of time than a period only you can determine in your head. For me, 48 hours is the longest I want to leave a pack charged before I believe the cells will start to see permanent scaring to their performance. As such, I can typically be found charging at the field before I fly, rather than charging the night before. With modern LiPo tech, faster charge rates have been proven to have negligible effect on battery life and a 2C charge rate is now considered safe and efficient. Depending on the battery, I may increase this rate to a higher level, for example some of my packs are rated to a 3C charge rate and are warrantied for years as such, so I don't mind charging at that rate because I will be covered (at which point, when the warranty runs out, it is probably in my best interest to purchase new again).




Quote:
2. Reason I ask, this weekend, I was at the local RC club, and when I arrived, i spent 2 hours charging the batteries before I could even fly. And one of the club members tells me, he keeps his batteries fully charged for weeks and always charges them to 100% at the end of each day.

I did not tell him my theory on the matter, since I thought maybe he knew what he was talking about, and I doubt what I had learned or believed regarding this subject.
I cannot agree with this viewpoint, knowing how charged state affects LiPo battery performance it would not be in the best of interests to leave packs fully charged after flying. Storage levels, or close to it, prolong the life of packs. This ranges from roughly 3.78-3.85v/cell. If an individual states this to you and his packs are visibly puffed, it may be for the best to select others' viewpoints.

As always, these are my opinions, and YMMV
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Old 05-14-2021, 05:10 AM
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all excellent comments, thank you Xpress and Dan

So basically, my prior knowledge on this was correct. My friend from the club, on the other hand, has some major mis-conceptions. I should probably, in a very kind way, try to shift his thinking on this matter.

He came up to me and told me he puts the batteries in a freezer right before he goes out to fly. Again, I did not say anything to him, but according to my little knowledge on electricity, electrons do not flow as well in cold temperatures.

SO he probably needs to stop that practice as well.

thank you all!
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Old 05-14-2021, 05:19 AM
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The new line of Spektrum Smart batteries self-discharge to whatever voltage you select via an internal chip, using their Smart Charger. I believe they also come factory set. I bought two 5,000 mAh packs for one of my planes. And I was surprised to find they were so discharged before taking the plane flying one day. Turns out, this is a feature. Some may like it. Some not. But it would definitely seem to extend the life of the batteries even if someone didn’t know that they should not be stored a full charge.
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:47 AM
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https://home.castlecreations.com/blog/2020/1/2/-

Explains why some guys put packs in their pockets prior to use.
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Old 05-14-2021, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orthobird View Post
I am using a PW that is 24 volts at 67 amps

but I set the amp rate for charging at 5 when I have all the batteries hooked up.

What i do not know is, is the 5 amps for all or is it per each battery?

This is my 1st time using the Icharger.

so lets say I am charging 4 batteries parallel, do i set the rate at 20 amps??

each battery is 5S at 5100 Mah
Each channel has a charge rate capability. Your 4010, is capable of charging 40 Amps and 10S LiPo/LiFe/LiOn packs. You can charge from .01A to 40A, each channel.

If you are charing you packs on a ParaBoard (hooking more than 1 pack to it at a time), you should automatically double your charge rate, at minimum, but at most peak charge rate of your charger (40A). Think of your charge rate like this....... Your water spigot on your house and a 5 gallon bucket. You crack open the spigot so that you are barely getting water out of it, its gonna take forever to fill up that 5 gallon bucket. Open your spigot to full open, it takes less time to fill up. Think of your spigot as your charge rate. The higher the charge rate, the faster the recharge will be for your packs, if that makes any sense to you.

I check how much power I am pulling from my supplies, pretty regularly. If Im charging big packs, I know I can only pull 1150W from my supply. I cannot charge both both channels at 30 or 40A and expect my supplies to give me the power I need to do that, so I will back my charge rate down considerably, to where I get both channels charging at about 500W. That means slowing down my charge rate, say from 25A to 15A.

When you parallel charge your packs, you are adding more capacity to refill (bigger fuel tank, to say). At 5A on your 10A pack, that alone by simple math tell me that it will take 2 hrs to charge, if the packs were completely dead. 1A equals 1,000mAh. If in your shoes, I would take a pair of packs, and charge them at 25A each channel. If you use the status button, and tap it 2x, you will see a power page, on your 4010. Top line will show you your Wattage. 5S LiPo times 25A (charge rate) will show you something between 500 and 575W. Should be close to 525W, but I give you a range to look for.

iCharger 4010 DUO with iCharger 306B review.. (Part 1) (12 min 47 sec)


Have a look at this guys YT page, he goes thru a good bit on the charger. Using and set up. He has a few video parts that I think would benefit you with charging.

Biggest thing is to follow what the battery manufacture says to charge at. They have done all the extensive testing on the packs, charge rate, discharge rates, continous running Amperage, max Amp draw, all that stuff. I have been dealing with LiPo batteries for nearly 20 years. I have alot of info, some is hard to convey into words. The evolution of batteries and chargers and balancing has come full circle of what it was when I was first using them.
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Old 05-17-2021, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orthobird View Post
all excellent comments, thank you Xpress and Dan

So basically, my prior knowledge on this was correct. My friend from the club, on the other hand, has some major mis-conceptions. I should probably, in a very kind way, try to shift his thinking on this matter.

He came up to me and told me he puts the batteries in a freezer right before he goes out to fly. Again, I did not say anything to him, but according to my little knowledge on electricity, electrons do not flow as well in cold temperatures.

SO he probably needs to stop that practice as well.

thank you all!
You are correct about temperatures. Batteries like to be warm for discharging purposes. I've put cold batteries in my electrics and they have a notable decrease in performance for the first 1-2min of flight before the packs warm up and begin flowing electronics better.
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Old 05-17-2021, 05:42 PM
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The put-in-the refrigerator comes from previous battery chemistries.
Before NimH.... pre-historic folk had to deal with lead acid batteries famous by a black cat (eveready) and the blue yellow rayovac and then alkalines.... made famous by a hopity pink rabbit ... these non-rechargable batteries benefited of a extended shelf life when kept in the refrigerator (NOT in the freezer
Cheers,
Patrick
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Old 05-18-2021, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampflier View Post
The put-in-the refrigerator comes from previous battery chemistries.
Before NimH.... pre-historic folk had to deal with lead acid batteries famous by a black cat (eveready) and the blue yellow rayovac and then alkalines.... made famous by a hopity pink rabbit ... these non-rechargable batteries benefited of a extended shelf life when kept in the refrigerator (NOT in the freezer
Cheers,
Patrick
Reminds me of when we would try to squeeze every last ounce of capacity out of 3000mah NiMH cells years ago for surface racing. Charge in a bucket of ice so the delta peak was thrown off and you could cram 4000mah+ into 3000mah cells. Then stick a bump box (2, 6 cell 3000 packs in series) on the battery for 25-30 seconds to bring them back up to heat just before setting the car on the start line.
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Old 05-19-2021, 08:38 AM
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Curious to hear thoughts on recharging a freshly discharged and still warm/hot pack. How long do you wait to zap it again -- let it cool to OAT, give a few min and go or right back on the charger?
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Old 05-21-2021, 08:34 AM
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If I run a pack low low, I will put it back on charge immediately, just to get some energy back into it. Otherwise, I will let the pack cool off and then recharge
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Old 05-22-2021, 02:59 PM
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As long as it is below 25 Celsius you can recharge all day. And as many times as you like.
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Old 05-25-2021, 07:45 PM
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these are some images from my charger and the power supply.

with 4 batteries, it was pulling 17 amps, even though I had set it to 20 amp rate

once I had 8 batteries connected via 2 banks, it wa spelling 35 amps.


i had all the batteries charged quickly from a storage level.


Now, I understand how to use the charger.

thank you all for the comments.
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