The sequence committee would definitely have to take more things into consideration if we implemented the aerobatic box, although I can fly the current Advanced sequence with ease insthe aerobatic box for Pattern. Since I fly Masters in Pattern I typically have the box marked out at my practice field.

I'll be candid about the intent of this poll. We're revamping the Cactus Classic for the spring 2018 event. Giving it a serious "shot in the arm" to make it a premier event you don't want to miss. Much more on this later in a different thread. We'd like to accomplish a few things:

1) Bring camaraderie back to the SW region between AZ and CA.
2) Grow IMAC (or at least slow attrition) by keeping things exciting, fresh and fun
3) Squash the negatives
4) Make this contest a "Must Attend" event for existing IMAC pilots in the whole region and even possibly attract some from outside the region.
5) Get more pilots to give IMAC a try - many get the "bug" after their first contest

I'm hearing a few things so far from this poll:

-Location is and always will be one of the top considerations. Tough to change that much. However, we are changing the field and bringing the Cactus Classic back to the Phoenix / Cave Creek field.

-Lots of talk about the size of the box indicating some people would like the contest to move along more quickly in order to have more flight time.

-The poll is showing time of year / weather to be of utmost importance in their consideration to attend a contest - again, tough to change the weather - Spring in AZ is AMAZING though. Just ask a Canadian! Hard to beat March / April in Phoenix!

-Fairness or bias in judging at the contest seems high up on the scale too. I believe this could also be connected to the "who the CD is going to be" but I'm not positive due to the discrepancy in the poll - I would think they'd match more closely if I were right. I'd love to hear the Giants communities thoughts on ways to combat the situation of fairness / bias in judging.

-Availability and willingness of help from other pilots / club members - also getting a few votes in there. Ways to create a great environment for this category of a contest?

How busy is the airport near SVF?
Is the 400' ceiling still in place?
And in the past camping was not allowed at SVF, has that changed?
Thanks,
Dave

Originally Posted by Hammerman

How busy is the airport near SVF?
Is the 400' ceiling still in place?
And in the past camping was not allowed at SVF, has that changed?
Thanks,
Dave

Airport won't be an issue, 400' ceiling will not be in effect, we practice full routines there all the time now. We have a totally new board of directors at SVF which is IMAC friendly. Camping will definitely be allowed. Already cleared all of these things with the board and have approval for the contest! We will do a thread on the cactus classic as we get closer with all the details. Just trying to gather as much information from the community as possible to make this one of the most desirable events of the year!

Funny, but for awhile I thought this would be another "whine about IMAC thread"
Good to see I am wrong and glad to see you taking a poll to help address what bothers
some of the pilots. I love IMAC and have to say. many of my friends are in it. this being
said, the drive, money and other stuff doesn't bug me at all. The only thing that really
torques my tatas is getting rained out, the unbridles rage only lasts til I see when the next one is.
Its like a lot of past times.....takes work, expensive, everyone wants it their way and
only one will winnit. I love it the way it is and got no gripes.....just smiles

Originally Posted by bbeedy

Airport won't be an issue, 400' ceiling will not be in effect, we practice full routines there all the time now. We have a totally new board of directors at SVF which is IMAC friendly. Camping will definitely be allowed. Already cleared all of these things with the board and have approval for the contest! We will do a thread on the cactus classic as we get closer with all the details. Just trying to gather as much information from the community as possible to make this one of the most desirable events of the year!

Good to know and will be looking forward to the Cactus Classic being back at SVF

Originally Posted by bbeedy

-Lots of talk about the size of the box indicating some people would like the contest to move along more quickly in order to have more flight time.

Exactly... I was just going to write... gotta move things along a lot better!

Brad,
This is a really great approach. I would expect nothing less coming from you. I remember starting into IMAC it was always a goal of mine to fly in the Cactus Classic. It truly was the contest to attend back in the day and several "pros" would attend in the Unlimited Class. I truly believe with some effort that this contest could be made to be "must attend" contest in the SouthWest every year. Having it at the SVF field is great news especially if those issues have been resolved that you mentioned earlier. I am looking forward to getting back into competing this next year so hopefully I will be able to attend and help. If there is anything I can do you know where to reach me. Take care my friend.

Baco

+1 to what terry said. here in the northeast, throughout the year the events are pretty small and to me at least that makes them more attractive to me. the atmosphere is just so much better. everyone has fun, judges take time to explain things to you. Also it is almost more like a family event. everyone that goes has fun we even have folks that continue to come from the southeast. we may not get as much flying in as the bigger events but the atmosphere makes up for that.

I have been sitting out of this and watching. A few comments for the most voted on items.

Location is key, I am unable to travel from CO to AZ for a contest. This is the case for a lot of individuals (nationwide) so having contests that are within a few hours drive is a must. Big events like will motivate pilots to come from across the country but the standard events most likely will not.

Bias in judging: this can all but be eliminated by not letting any single judge evaluate more than 1 round per class. In CO this is difficult due to the fact that we have so few pilots and even fewer who are able to judge the upper classes. We need to encourage repeat Basic Pilots and Sportsman to be capable of judging Advanced/Unlimited. This is where more schools is important so that we have a larger pool of qualified and confident judges.

This also brings up the point of having people judge who have not been to a school. If a judge consistently gives 7's for something that should be a zero that can and will cause a issue. The redbook has different deductions for different errors and if the deductions are not weighted properly then someone who always skips a line on a downline (common) can consistently get 7's and 8's when they should be below 6. This is just one example of how a small error can be a huge deduction that is not properly applied.


Weather and Time of Year: Not much can be done here other than if you are in AZ dont schedule events in August. It will still be hot no matter when you fly but you can avoid the extreme weather. In CO we start in June and end in October to avoid the rainy/snowy season.

As the ARD in CO I am trying hard to increase the pilot count and contest count in the area and will be paying attention to this thread.

As for the Box Comments and Time limits I can not agree with either.

Entering the box....the initial question was what would it take to bring someone to an event. that answer is pretty easy - the closer the better. beyond that, the discussion devolves into suggestions and criticisms that often are simply inherent in the IMAC model and after a while all that is heard are echoes of previous threads. Judging has and will continue to be an issue - that's not a criticism, it's just reality. Get over it. Some of the unwanted effects can be mitigated, but they will never be eliminated as long as there is contestant judging. The large footprint isn't going away because the genie isn't going back in the bottle. It's a style that has evolved over time that is widely embraced. in the end, the only question is whether you had fun. Go with the attitude that that's all it is about and you will be fine. Embrace the chance to be with people that you might not otherwise get to hang out with. Meet new people. I thoroughly enjoy my conversations with the local IMAC guys I've recently met. But go with the attitude that winning or placing has some importance in your life and you will be frustrated and critical. It takes a lot of effort to put on a large event and the pay ain't so great, so be realistic about expectations when you show up because someone else did all the work, and despite their best efforts, the outcome may not be to your choosing. The whole growth in So Cal IMAC came about because a number of us were tired of driving to AZ, and we had ideas we wanted to implement. The result was well attended and well supported contests that weren't perfect, but a hell of a lot of fun. Exiting the box....(if there is one)

Bottom line - don't take it too seriously.

Paul

Keith, great comments! I'd love to see a CO contest a little closer to AZ - within 7-8 hrs of phoenix. Any possibility of a contest near Durango or Cortez?? I think you might attract a BUNCH of AZ pilots during the summer! The 12 hr drive makes it a little far for many AZ pilots that have to work on Monday. I always thought an IMAC contest in Monument Valley would be amazing too!

Originally Posted by FGNewbie

Entering the box....the initial question was what would it take to bring someone to an event. that answer is pretty easy - the closer the better. beyond that, the discussion devolves into suggestions and criticisms that often are simply inherent in the IMAC model and after a while all that is heard are echoes of previous threads. Judging has and will continue to be an issue - that's not a criticism, it's just reality. Get over it. Some of the unwanted effects can be mitigated, but they will never be eliminated as long as there is contestant judging. The large footprint isn't going away because the genie isn't going back in the bottle. It's a style that has evolved over time that is widely embraced. in the end, the only question is whether you had fun. Go with the attitude that that's all it is about and you will be fine. Embrace the chance to be with people that you might not otherwise get to hang out with. Meet new people. I thoroughly enjoy my conversations with the local IMAC guys I've recently met. But go with the attitude that winning or placing has some importance in your life and you will be frustrated and critical. It takes a lot of effort to put on a large event and the pay ain't so great, so be realistic about expectations when you show up because someone else did all the work, and despite their best efforts, the outcome may not be to your choosing. The whole growth in So Cal IMAC came about because a number of us were tired of driving to AZ, and we had ideas we wanted to implement. The result was well attended and well supported contests that weren't perfect, but a hell of a lot of fun. Exiting the box....(if there is one)

Bottom line - don't take it too seriously.

Paul

Well said

Originally Posted by bbeedy

Keith, great comments! I'd love to see a CO contest a little closer to AZ - within 7-8 hrs of phoenix. Any possibility of a contest near Durango or Cortez?? I think you might attract a BUNCH of AZ pilots during the summer! The 12 hr drive makes it a little far for many AZ pilots that have to work on Monday. I always thought an IMAC contest in Monument Valley would be amazing too!

I do not believe we have any IMAC pilots in the Durango area however it would be a good point for AZ.CA pilots to attend. If we could get a solid 15-20 pilots I am sure I could find a club to host.

We do have an event (October 7th) that is in Pueblo which is about 3 hours from Durango in the southern Part of Colorado.

Ill start throwing out the idea of a Durango Contest and see how many Denver guys would be willing to attend. If I can get pilots I would start on the logistics of it.

Originally Posted by FGNewbie

Bottom line - don't take it too seriously.

Paul

Paul, that is 100% correct.

I refuse to call IMAC events "Competitions" because in My opinion they are "Challenges" where you are challenged to fly in stressful situations (being observed) at an unfamiliar location.

The best advice I was ever given was:

You are judged against perfection, not the other pilots. Are you a perfect pilot? (I say No) So dont expect perfect scores.

Why I attend events (in order)

1) Hanging out with like minded individuals
2) Learning from those who are better than I AND helping others
3) Flying

For me actually flying is lowest on my list, if someone needs help I would have no issue helping them rather than flying or preparing for my next flight.