Originally Posted by Bunky F. Knuckle

Yeah, I was referring to the Dayton shows

Yeah, I knew what you meant. I didn't mean to insinuate you left anything out if it seemed that way. I just pointed out that it happens all over and too often. It's still a dream of mine to fly aerobatics in my own plane. I don't know that I will ever fly low level aerobatics. My mind may change one day, but I like the idea of having the possibility of getting out if I get in over my head or something breaks/fails. The greatest pilot has no control over a lot of mechanical factors and, to me, that is why I have so much respect for those that do it. The love they have for it greatly outweighs the risk. First you have to want it, then you have to have the guts.

Dang....that is terrible news

I was there, yes the engine sputtered and it looked he tried to roll it over. I'm just sick I don't know what to say. May God be with the family.
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i dunno. i'm starting to become less affected by these incidents lately, more ambivalent. they seem to common place, par for the course at least several times a year wherever they take place and for what reason is it done, to show off, push the envelope, entertainment, impress a crowd of strangers so they can smile and say 'golly isnt that good'. seems strange that we live in an age which prohibits so many forms of pleasure because its no longer pc or try to enforce a protective environment to prevent unnecessary risk and yet some forms of entertainment are accepted and endorsed by governing bodies despite breaking every known safety law imposed on something similar but has a variation with a different theme. throwing away life is all i see from these instances. complete waste

Agree looks like the engine my be going out. Notice that the plane is heading toward the crowd. My humble opinion is that he might have saw that and made sure it did not make it into the crowd. If so, a real hero...

Don't most of those old radials belch and burp when they roll upside down? I think that's normal. What's weird is that when you pause the video there is up elevator and right aileron in it.
Regardless, it's very sad to see.

Don't most of those old radials belch and burp when they roll upside down?

NO

Originally Posted by Rick1999

NO

Every time I have watched John Mohr(sp?) fly his routine it does. I know his isn't a 450 but that's just what I thought they did.

Ok so it's the fuel system that causes that in his stock Stearman.

Looks a lot like an inverted stall and accidental 1/4 snap roll. Flat bottom airfoil. One video is up in slow motion. The roll right doesn't look to be commanded by the pilot.

Originally Posted by kjkimball

Looks a lot like an inverted stall and accidental 1/4 snap roll. Flat bottom airfoil. One video is up in slow motion. The roll right doesn't look to be commanded by the pilot.

+1

Looks like quite the push during the roll.

Regardless of what happened, it is very sad, indeed.

Originally Posted by kjkimball

Looks a lot like an inverted stall and accidental 1/4 snap roll. Flat bottom airfoil. One video is up in slow motion. The roll right doesn't look to be commanded by the pilot.

Exactly right. He was also way off axis at the start of the roll, skidding right. You can see in the video he is hard left rudder trying to correct. Both led to a rapid reduction in airspeed and the resulting stall/spin.


At any rate, it was a tragic outcome. I had met Jane twenty years ago when she an Kirk Wicker were newly married. She was a lovely woman with a deep passion for aviation.

Very sad indeed!!!

In my opinion, which isn't worth much, but from what I seen in video and in person/heard, it all kind of coincides with a too slow of manuever entrance, and forcing that lumbering giant into an inverted state and it did stall. Then what I heard was the engine go silent, and then rap back up to full song, and then the disheartening crunch and the luminous black smoke. So, maybe Charlie knew that it was getting slow, and he got into the power to maintain...... Noone will ever know, except for Charlie, we can't ask him now...... But also, on the other hand, I think some of it could be pilot error too.

Originally Posted by Jaybird

Every time I have watched John Mohr(sp?) fly his routine it does. I know his isn't a 450 but that's just what I thought they did.

Ok so it's the fuel system that causes that in his stock Stearman.

John's is a gravity fed carb,, so when he is inverted too long the engine runs out of fuel.

Don't know about this incident, I have never seen these performers. I see a couple puffs of smoke out the exhaust, maybe the engine malfunctioned, and pilot made a choice.

Best wishes to friends and family.

Originally Posted by kjkimball

Looks a lot like an inverted stall and accidental 1/4 snap roll. Flat bottom airfoil. One video is up in slow motion. The roll right doesn't look to be commanded by the pilot.

I saw a video from a more rearward angle, and up until the nose pitches down from inverted, the elevator is in a fairly neutral position. When the nose pitches down from inverted, you can clearly see some aft elevator and right aileron deflected. Because of the slight aft elevator position, I do not think the final pitch down from inverted was an inverted stall. Charlie and Jane are terrible losses.

Just made it onto tonight's news over here in New Zealand. They didn't show the final moments on the news. Very sad news indeed.

Ross