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Old 10-17-2007, 12:21 AM
TomLee is offline
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Denver, Colorado
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

I am sure glad this thread is for dummies--cause here I go again. I understand how robust these batteries are, however I am having a difficult time with the charging. What happens if the voltage exceeds 3.3v/cell to as much as 3.6v/cell?

Why can't I set my Triton on lithium @7.2v about 2c for a receiver pack?
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Old 10-17-2007, 07:22 AM
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

7.2 volt is a desired charge but you can't set the Triton to that. If Great Planes would update the software, the Triton would then be capable of charging A123s. The setting on the Triton for lithium states the under load votage of the battery, not what it charges to. The 7.2v setting actually charges to 8.2 volts (full charge for a 2 cell lithium ion pack).
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Old 10-17-2007, 10:19 PM
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Old Grey Beard Fighter Pilot
Ft Wayne, IN
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

THat's exactly right.

I did find out that the orbit series of chargers charge A123's just fine. they have a LIFN setting for 3.6 volt max charge. THose chargers use the proper cc/cv and fill em up very well. After they sit for awhile at 7 volts, though they drop back down a bit, but dont worry, they are still full. I ran one down yesterday to almost 2500 mah, down to 2 volts per cell, and slammed it on the orbit, and at 6 amps, it was full in no time. Sweet. anyone wanna buy nickels?

I think I got two new converts yesterday.

Dick,
the Y mod to the JR switch works well. I put a deans on the batt side, and two outputs on the batt side. And on the single output packs with one servo wire for small scale, I disconnected the sig wire at the receiver.

By the way, soldering the packs is easy. used a standard 40 watt iron. I sanded the tabs and the tip with 280 grit to rough it up. It was very easy. ripped a dewalt and make up 5 receiver packs in about 1 hour or two. Cheaper than nickel pack at about 20 bucks complete per 2 cell pack.

I am using my orbit and then plug them into a blinky designed for A123's with two of the servo wires reversed on a 3 inch extension, so that it properly balances with the servo wire port. works slick.

One thing I am going to do though is go back and solder two leads from each pack. Did one lead before I realized the best thing is two leads for standard wiring. On my GS packs, I put 14 gage wiring to deans, and a servo wire for charging, checking, or whatever is needed. As such all the packs can be moved around as I crash planes...

I cant tell you how pleased I am with these.
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Old 10-22-2007, 10:41 AM
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
OK.

Finally I have some 3000 MaH M1 cells on the way. I shared the place where I get them from in an earlier thread so its no secret. You need to buy them 10 at a time but if you have a few buddies doing this thats not a lot.

Two cell 3000 MaH flight packs sounds like the cats pyjamas. Now hurry up Mr Postman.
Really? I just contacted him and was quoted a 100 piece minimum order. I don't mind doing it so long as I can sell some of them, but my question for you, Kiwi, is do you know if they will work on A123 capable chargers? I ask this because they show 3.2V nominal, not 3.3. I don't want to place this big order only to find out everyone would need a different charger.
Please let me know ASAP (I even sent you a PM on it), as I don't want to make the order without knowing this info.
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Old 10-22-2007, 11:57 AM
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywerks View Post
Really? I just contacted him and was quoted a 100 piece minimum order. I don't mind doing it so long as I can sell some of them, but my question for you, Kiwi, is do you know if they will work on A123 capable chargers? I ask this because they show 3.2V nominal, not 3.3. I don't want to place this big order only to find out everyone would need a different charger.
Please let me know ASAP (I even sent you a PM on it), as I don't want to make the order without knowing this info.
I looked at the cells offered -also got the missionary discount shipping prices (holy Moses!)
Then I asked A123 what they thot - and they of course said - "yer on yer own on those "
So --It is a crapshoot - but I will bet that the supply of cell sizes other than the 2300 A123 we now use - will become available - the auto people are into it - supossedly big time and if it takes off in that market -it will shake down to everyone . Therewill be LiIonfeo2nanophosphate with a cherry on top coming out our ears.
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Old 10-24-2007, 10:20 PM
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Ft Wayne, IN
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

setup my .25 falcon (teeny bobcat) up today on 123's. 6S1P. It had a 4S Lipo on it before. I added a cell so I could run a teeny bit more pitch and smaller prop. Im running a 2500 kv medusa. it was simply astonishing,

whatt meter says.....

APC 6x4
medusa 28mm - 40 - 2500kv
castle 80
6S 2300's

70-74 amps
1000 watts
volts just below 14
estimating 31,000 rpm.

cant wait to fly it. It lost 4 ounces in weight, and gained about 1000 rpm and 150 watts. should do about 100mph.

shorter flight time, but my nerves cant take more than about 5 mins on this one. Its the little nitro bobcat.

before on the 3000 4S it was pulling 68 amps at 12.7 volts loaded, and about 850 ish watts.

Oh, and by the way, no heat anymore in side the plane.

Wow, gonna fly sunday!!
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Old 10-24-2007, 11:09 PM
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

Yeh I tried the 2070 ,3 cell packs -singly then as a double -on my 32 EFlite
a DUD
then put in a 4 cell pack single of a123 - big improvement and I run em flat sometimes then recharge -
on 5 cells I pull 66 amps and my ERATIX goes like stink.
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Old 10-25-2007, 09:52 PM
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

What do these cells weigh?

I can't seem to find weight anywhere. I ask because a 5 cell of 4600mah Nimh, is 13-14 oz, where as a 5200 mah Lion is 6.3 oz. big differnce in weight.

So, what would a 4 cell pack weigh?
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:08 PM
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

two packs (4 cells) is 11 oz
however add your regs etc. for the LiIons -
also-- compare reliability and durability
not much of a contest in my book.
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Old 10-26-2007, 07:34 AM
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

Dick... I'm not sure what you mean.

2, 4 cell packs are 11 oz total for both? or is that 11 oz per 4 cell pack (each)?

I agree about the regs... just looking for some info to make me move forward. KISS.
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Old 10-26-2007, 09:19 AM
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dick hanson View Post
two packs (4 cells) is 11 oz
however add your regs etc. for the LiIons -
also-- compare reliability and durability
not much of a contest in my book.
each pack is 5.5 ozs
each pack is 2 cells
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Old 10-26-2007, 09:30 AM
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

Perfect. Thank you for clairfying.
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Old 10-26-2007, 09:33 AM
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMatt View Post
What do these cells weigh?

I can't seem to find weight anywhere. I ask because a 5 cell of 4600mah Nimh, is 13-14 oz, where as a 5200 mah Lion is 6.3 oz. big differnce in weight.

So, what would a 4 cell pack weigh?
The 5200's are a little over 6.6oz with wire, and the regulators are 1.5 ounces, so it's actually 8+ ounces. The real kicker is that that setup is only good for 8 amps or so, and you get a noticeable voltage drop at the battery, whereas even a 2300mah A123 is good for 50-60 amps while still maintaining enough voltage to keep receivers from dropping off-line and such (assuming the rest of your setup is up to the task).
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:18 AM
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

yup... I'm onboard.

I estimate that for 2 5200's LIon with 2 fromeco regs is about 17oz. with deans all around.

A123's (according to DH's #'s), for a 4600mah pack is 11 oz, or 22 oz for two.

NiMh 4600mah, 2 packs are about 26 oz.


I can find 5 oz in a 40%'er! or just run 2 2600's A123 and charge more often.

2600 mah A123 5.5 oz or 11 oz for two. (6 oz less then Lion)
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Old 10-26-2007, 09:52 PM
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Re: A123 Batteries for Dummies.

Flew the mini bobcat today with the 6S 2300 pack and it screamed. we were pulling bursts over 100 amps, and the cutoff was set for 2 volts/cell. we hit the cutoff (have a UBEC) several times trying to get it back home. the pack showed 3 volts per cell unloaded, and took 2296 mah. definitely found the wall.

At 73 amps, were getting 2.3volts per cell. from a 2300 battery. try that with a 3000 Lipo....without blowing it up that is. Oh and lost about 4 ounces. but also lost a few min flight time. Yesterday the same setup with a 4S lipo was getting 63 amps.

the little medusa was spinning the 6 x 4 over 30 k and doing about 100mph. It hurts your ears it screams so high pitched. I pulled the batteries after that and they were quite warm, but I could still hold them in my hand.

simply let them cool for about 10 mins, recharged them, and off again. over and over. and the charge time to get 95%......12 mins.

anyone else wanna come over to the dark side?
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