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Old 05-30-2008, 08:56 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

This is what I would do. I would put it under load, and then I would pull it to a reasonable rpm that the airplane would see. Lets say it will turn 6500 rpms on uplines or whatever. I would put it under a good load, pull it to 6500 as quickly as possible. Let it come to high idle, whack the throttle quickly, and if you left the load control alone, it should just rev to 6500 under load. With the soft ware you have, I would just time the runs from lets say 2000-6500 and that's what counts. I can't remember the last time that I had a weaker motor or setup that would get that top rpm quicker than the strong motor. That is why I like the inertia dyno. I can put two identical motors on it, pull it from x-rpm to x-rpm and that tells me right away which motor is stronger. If I had one that pulled a lot better on bottom end, that would be my short track motor, etc. I personally can't see any value in a slow sweep on the dyno unless you have a bog or something strange going on that you can't figure out. I am sure you already have one, but you should buy a set of gauges. Barometer, Temp., etc.
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:13 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

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This is what I would do. I would put it under load, and then I would pull it to a reasonable rpm that the airplane would see. Lets say it will turn 6500 rpms on uplines or whatever. I would put it under a good load, pull it to 6500 as quickly as possible. Let it come to high idle, whack the throttle quickly, and if you left the load control alone, it should just rev to 6500 under load. With the soft ware you have, I would just time the runs from lets say 2000-6500 and that's what counts. I can't remember the last time that I had a weaker motor or setup that would get that top rpm quicker than the strong motor. That is why I like the inertia dyno. I can put two identical motors on it, pull it from x-rpm to x-rpm and that tells me right away which motor is stronger. If I had one that pulled a lot better on bottom end, that would be my short track motor, etc. I personally can't see any value in a slow sweep on the dyno unless you have a bog or something strange going on that you can't figure out. I am sure you already have one, but you should buy a set of gauges. Barometer, Temp., etc.
I have the complete weather station linked to the software.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:12 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Weather station as in online? For giggles, you should see what it really is in the area real time, vs hourly updated weather... It's good to know what it really is right now. You will have to correct the HP if you want accurate data.
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Old 05-30-2008, 11:09 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

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Weather station as in online? For giggles, you should see what it really is in the area real time, vs hourly updated weather... It's good to know what it really is right now. You will have to correct the HP if you want accurate data.

Not online, this setup has a weather monitor that plugs into the harness so you get the same corrected hp for each test if its today or next week.
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Old 05-30-2008, 11:16 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Go to this webb page and download the software for the 2000 Pro or watch the demos. I think it is state of the art for today.

http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno-max...e/dyno-max.htm

this is the trial version

http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno-max...tware/demo.htm
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Old 05-31-2008, 04:03 PM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

The 275 will be on the dyno this week. I lost 400 rpm with the 3 blade and I need to get it back. I want to test the competition version against the non comp version first.
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Old 06-01-2008, 08:44 PM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Where did you lose the rpm? I can tell you time and time again, shorter header with cans make more top end. Longer headers with cans make more bottom end. It's the same with Greives pipes too... longer header makes the bottom end. I can almost predict every 1" on/off the header will give me 250-300 rpms...+ or - depending on which way I went.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:00 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

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Where did you lose the rpm? I can tell you time and time again, shorter header with cans make more top end. Longer headers with cans make more bottom end. It's the same with Greives pipes too... longer header makes the bottom end. I can almost predict every 1" on/off the header will give me 250-300 rpms...+ or - depending on which way I went.
I lost 400 rpm going to a 34x14 fuchs 3-blade from a 37x13 two-blade.
I like the prop but it has the engine loaded down to much. I am running cans on the 260 now. I am wanting to build a set of pipes for it soon that will help turn the 3 blade more rpm. I was turning the two blade 5150-5200 on the ground the three blade 4750-4800rpm. I know these things would make more power higher in the rpm range but the tips go sonic on the ground at 5050rpm with the two blade.
I thought alot of the noise that the plane made with the two blade was partially the carb but I was wrong.
GremlinX do you have a pipe program?
Thanks
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Old 06-02-2008, 07:45 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

A very interesting subject, subscribed here.
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Old 06-02-2008, 08:17 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

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A very interesting subject, subscribed here.
Snap,
I will work on pipes for both applications... one set for Imac and one set for hucking. They will probably be very different. Good news is our planes have alot of room for long large pipes.
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Old 06-02-2008, 10:54 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Sorry, I should have asked, where in the RPM band did you lose it with the 3 blade. When you get your dyno going, make a longer header, and take some timing out of it, see if that pulls it back to where it should be. I am going to pull a bunch of stuff on a new motor I was sent. As for a pipe program, no. I have used them in the past, but I have better results when I figure header length/volume and combustion volume with compression ratio also in the figure. I really should not be giving out all of my tricks, but for example, A great pipe I had a while back had no home. I was running a 50cc race boat motor in and the pipe was really built for a 40cc motor. I welded a plug on the stinger of the pipe, filled it with water up just a tick past the expansion chamber, threw it in the deep freeze and just kept checking on it until it buldged it out and stretched the aluminum 1/4" diameter. Talk about money... that pipe woke that little motor right up. Greves pipes are pretty good pipes but I don't think they are really equal. I have a set and one flows 3-4 cfm's more than the other, and it also makes more back pressure than the better flowing one. They are aweful expensive to just be cutting apart, but it's in my nature...
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Old 06-02-2008, 12:38 PM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

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I have a set and one flows 3-4 cfm's more than the other, and it also makes more back pressure than the better flowing one. They are aweful expensive to just be cutting apart, but it's in my nature...
Gremlin, Do you know why one of them has more flow than the other ? You would think they would be the same.


Josh
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:34 PM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GremlinX View Post
Sorry, I should have asked, where in the RPM band did you lose it with the 3 blade. When you get your dyno going, make a longer header, and take some timing out of it, see if that pulls it back to where it should be. I am going to pull a bunch of stuff on a new motor I was sent. As for a pipe program, no. I have used them in the past, but I have better results when I figure header length/volume and combustion volume with compression ratio also in the figure. I really should not be giving out all of my tricks, but for example, A great pipe I had a while back had no home. I was running a 50cc race boat motor in and the pipe was really built for a 40cc motor. I welded a plug on the stinger of the pipe, filled it with water up just a tick past the expansion chamber, threw it in the deep freeze and just kept checking on it until it buldged it out and stretched the aluminum 1/4" diameter. Talk about money... that pipe woke that little motor right up. Greves pipes are pretty good pipes but I don't think they are really equal. I have a set and one flows 3-4 cfm's more than the other, and it also makes more back pressure than the better flowing one. They are aweful expensive to just be cutting apart, but it's in my nature...
I looked at grieves also and did some initial calculations, for the 210 they are way too small.
For the 170 I would think they are marginal at best for being the "correct" size
I know during this thread I will be showing some things that some manufacturers may not like but remember theses are my own personel tests and I am passing on to you what I observe.
I am not a pipe expert yet... but I am doing alot of research on the subject and soon I will tell what conclusions I come to. You can take my opinions for what you think they are worth.
I think just seeing some real world hp and torque numbers for some of these motors would be enlightening

I have seen the insides of several pipes for what its worth. There are alot of things to consider when making pipes, and there are no guaranteed results. Approximate sizes and how they think they will work is a best guess.
The dyno will tell us if we are on the right track or not.
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:41 PM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

the dyno never lies.

Nor does it care who's name is on the part being tested...
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Old 06-02-2008, 04:14 PM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Hi guys. I just wanted to pop in and say you have another "subscriber" to this thread. I am a "hp junkie" like others here. I have a shop outside of Dallas, Tx. and build blown alcohol engines primarily for tractor pulling and also some drag racing (www.jdfperformance.com). I also fly r/c....50cc, as time allows.
I have wanted to do just what you guys are doing with my engines for quite a while, but just don't have the time right now to devote to the project. So... I look forward to following along with your testing results.

GremlinX,
I saw your location (Chapel Hill) and thought I would ask if you have been to the NTPA tractor pull there. I attended last year with one of my customers where we competed in the unlimited tractor class (five blown alcohol hemis). I have been to a lot of pulls all over the nation and have to say Chapel Hill is my absolute favorite pull of all time. The facility was great and the treatment of the competitors was second to none. I hope to come back this year.

Jeff
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