I'm looking to install a smoke system to my dle 170 and have been bouncing around looking at different setups and thought wouldn't it be easier to have a one stop thread for everybody. So everyone out there smokin it up, please post what you have and how well it works. Maybe even some video if you have it. Problems you've experienced and your solutions. How clean your setup runs and if its adversely effecting your airframes. oil choices or if you make your own etc.

Thank you for your time and knowledge for this newbie smoker.

Originally Posted by grumman-cats

I'm looking to install a smoke system to my dle 170 and have been bouncing around looking at different setups and thought wouldn't it be easier to have a one stop thread for everybody. So everyone out there smokin it up, please post what you have and how well it works. Maybe even some video if you have it. Problems you've experienced and your solutions. How clean your setup runs and if its adversely effecting your airframes. oil choices or if you make your own etc.

Thank you for your time and knowledge for this newbie smoker.

I thought we had a thread like this before.

1. use an ESC style smoke pump. Not a screw or clamp on the smoke line. It should be mixed to your throttle where you can vary the flow.

2. I like to use a seperate battery for the pump. In my case I use 7.4 LION to a sullivan skywriter. I found the sullivan can operate on lower voltages but it runs better at very low speed with a higher voltage battery

3. Smoke Dri, Aerocumulos, Robart are probably the 3 best smoke oils. By in bulk and work with your LHS to get them at that same time they order glo fuel and you can save on shipping if the LHS works with you.

4. Temp, altitude etc changes your settings, but generally on a gasser less oil is better smoke. If you have oil on your plane you are pissing money away because that is unburnt oil departing your mufflers. It takes time to find the settings

5. Seal the bottom of your plane covering edges with a trim solvent or nail polish. Oil will work its way under seams and ruin the covering adhesive over time.

6. Short lines from pump to muffler. Use a check valve and I use neoprene lines from autozone stores. You can buy it by the foot alot cheaper than R/C sites/stores. It holds up better to temps of the muffler.

I thought I had read a while back about sprat bars for inside the mufflers but cannot remember the details. Do you have any knowledge of these?

Don't forget the Bad Dog nozzles.
https://baddogsmokes.com/

Originally Posted by highonthai

Don't forget the Bad Dog nozzles.
https://baddogsmokes.com/

What he says....probably produces the best 'spray' pattern to vaporize the smoke fluid, but the amount of heat AND the volume of smoke fluid (variable based on throttle position) will have a lot to do with the end product as well.

Originally Posted by highonthai

Don't forget the Bad Dog nozzles.
https://baddogsmokes.com/

Here is another believer in this nozzles. !

Watching this thread. I’d like to put smoke on my Edge. I don’t know the first thing about it though.

How do BadDog nozzles compare to Slimline smoke mufflers, specifically in a DA120? Slimline sure looks like more than just a nozzle.

From my knowledge Slimline mufflers come in two options. The standard stock mufflers from DA aircraft that accept an 8-32 injector fitting also available from the DA website. Muffler set is $185 & then the injectors are $1.50 each.

Then you have the Slimline compact mufflers with the SPI smoke system available from the Slimline website. These muffler sell for $249 for the set and feature the SPI injectors. Looks like they remove by means of a snap ring.

If anyone has more info about the SPI injector fitting or injector tip itself please post info to the thread. I sent an email to Slimline website for more info. I will relay info back to the thread.

I can answer any questions about bad dog nozzles. Basically BDS nozzles can be fitted to any existing muffler by means of drilling and tapping a new hole to accept the nozzle. Even if you have an existing smoke port tap, drilling and tapping a hole directly through the muffler sidewall will yeild the best performance by directing the spray in the proper area and direction as they are indexable. No-weld dapters are available for adding to header and canister systems. BDS nozzles spray a flat fan atomizing mist. Nozzle kits sell for $28 each & the no-weld header adapter kits sell for $14 ea.

+11111 for bad dog nozzles. It’s the difference between thick smoke and tons of oil of the bottom of your plane. That style of nozzle is the current be-all-end-all for smoke thickness and oil conservation.

Originally Posted by William_Burkert

How do BadDog nozzles compare to Slimline smoke mufflers, specifically in a DA120? Slimline sure looks like more than just a nozzle.

Nice thing about slimline smoke mufflers is the internal 'heat exchanger' that heats up the smoke oil prior to it entering the muffler

Bad thing about slimline and other nozzles is their design is 'ancient' when compared to BadDog nozzles......they squirt a stream whereas the BadDog nozzles provide a more 'atomized' spray, easier for the heat from the motor to vaporize from liquid to smoke. Final product also produces much less 'residual' oil on airframe than other standard nozzles

Thanks for all the information so far and hope slimline reply’s because I sure would like to see their spray pattern. I like to idea of slimline having a preheater but I really like bad dog’s atomizer.

What’s everyone think about the DA120 stock muffler’s with external heater coils, welded in place?

Can smoke oil get too hot?

With twin exhaust should I use two one-way valves?

Does the smoke oil tank vent line also loop around the tank before exiting like the gas tanks do?

I have not bought DA120 muffler’s yet but I have a Sullivan pump and two 32 oz tanks waiting on arrival of a Mamba 120 that will have smoke. I’m just trying to ensure I will have a smoke system that will problem free and plenty of smoke. I do not like using Tygon tubing and have great success with Sullivan ProLine. I plan on using it everywhere on the smoke system up to the one way valve then use black neoprene? to the mufflers.

1) External heater coils will definitely provide additional 'up-front' heat content to the smoke oil, which means it will take less heat from the exhaust to change the liquid smoke oil to vapor smoke oil. Always a good thing. Still not sure if the end result will be as good as creating a 'finer spray (smaller smoke oil droplet)' using Bad Dog nozzles (or other nozzles that are not the standard 'squirt a stream' type) but you'll just have to see. If your setup leaves residual oil on your aircraft then you have to change variables (nozzle type, amount of heat added to oil, amount of oil pumped versus throttle position, etc.) to try and eliminate it.
2) I've never seen anyone get enough heat out of our exhaust systems or nozzles, or combinations of both, to 'char' smoke oil....is it possible, probably but highly unlikely
3) I've gone both ways with the one way valves and can't comment on which is better.....I'm sure others will provide more expert reasons for which is better
4) Never looped my smoke oil line but others may provide a reason why you might want to do so
5) Smoke oil will have minimal to no effect on Tygon or Viton tubing, I've used both without issues. Why spend extra money for the Proline unless it's something you use in place of the others.
6) Yes, black neoprene to any connection to the muffler, due to the exhaust heat on the metal connection

What is the purpose of the check valve?

I agree with Bill's points on preheating smoke oil. Basically a heat exchanger. The temperature rise is dependent on a couple of factors.
Surface area & storage capacity- basically the length of tubing that will transfer heat into the smoke oil. Flow rate: Lower oil dispensing rate will allow greater heat transfer as the oil is within the heating tube will have more time to absorb heat. Short burst of smoke should yield better "up-font" smoke, (several seconds) but once the volume within the heating tube has been dispensed from the pre-heater - the subsequent oil while the pump is flowing will not have the same heat rise unless smoke is turned off for a time allowing the oil within the tube to reach it's maximum pre-heated temp again. Some installations such as a header and canister exhaust system make it easier to build a large heating coil relatively easy. Think of a long coiled spring around the header tube. A stock style box muffler will likely not allow the same surface area & storage capacity.

Same thoughts with Bill on overheating smoke oil. Possible, maybe, but unlikely.

Check valves: I am a believer of check valves, but not all the time. Your pump selection and plumbing system will dictate the need. Let me explain... The first thing that should be considered is how many oil injectors your supplying. Typically this is 1, 2 or 4. Let's consider a DA 120 twin so 2 injectors. Next we consider your smoke pump. Does your pump have a single output line and you will be using a tee or wye fitting? If the answer is yes, then YES I would suggest dual check valves with one check valve just before each injector. If your using a dual output smoke pump such as the PowerBox systems model 8015 smoke pump then NO you will not need any check valves.

Anytime a single output smoke pump supply line is split using a tee or wye fitting, you are then creating a pair of branch lines connected through the tee or wye fitting and creating a venting effect through that fitting leaving an always open pathway between the branch lines leading to the injectors. A single check valve installed upstream from the tee or wye fitting still leaves these branch circuits open. Alternating engine compression pressures can and will siphon or dribble smoke oil into one or both cylinders in an alternating pattern giving a faint smoke trail once you switch your smoke OFF. A delay time of a second or two is typically then experienced when the smoke is switched ON again as you re-prime the lines. To some pilots this may not be an issue, for others- the ability for crisp timing of smoke at precise moments within a routine are desired. Dual check valves- one just before each injector is the solution.

Some smoke pumps such as PowerBox Systems smoke pumps advertise that they do not require check valves because the pump head is built to such tight tolerances. Yes I have found this to be true, but again we need to look at the plumbing after the fact. The check valve is a function not of the pump in this case, but the plumbing. A PowerBox systems model 8010 single output smoke pump feeding twin smoke injectors and using a tee or wye fitting WOULD require dual check valves. If the 8010 smoke pump was feeding a single injector on a DA 60 then you WOULD NOT need a check valve.

A four cylinder system would then require 4 check valves regardless of the pump used. It is always a good practice to keep all tubing lengths on output side of the pump the same lengths per branch if feeding multiple injectors. This ensures more even back back pressure to ensure equal oil volume to each injector. For those fabricating a pinched copper tube injector, special attention on multiple cylinder engines should be used to ensure that each injector dispenses very close to the the same volume of smoke oil.

I do prefer to loop my smoke tank vent line for the same reasons we loop the vent line on fuel tanks. Just a habit I guess.

I am a fan of PowerBox systems smoke pumps. In my opinion these are the best built & trouble free pumps in terms of value for your dollar.

The Sullivan ProFlex line is supposed to be rated as high temp for use right up to the injectors. This tubing has a thinner wall thickness and the ID can be oversized for a nice tight connection on standard 1/8" fittings.

Neoprene black tubing is supposed to be a good high temp smoke oil tubing, Viton might be a more popular choice among smokers for the final 6-8" leading up to the injectors. Just do not be temped to use silicone tubing smoke oil will deteriorate it.