Thanks for the pics Brian.

Originally Posted by GROOVEN J

Might get me a back up. If there's any left.

Herve,
How long will the sale last?

Only a few days. These will go fast, and it will be limited to items in stock.

yep that looks like an awesome black friday sale. i couldn't believe it when i saw it on facebook! anyone looking for a plane this size should take a look!

Programming started today and I HAD to take some pictures.

Not finished with programming yet, so I'll post and update later. Anyone who's properly setup a plane knows programming takes a LONG time.

This is a beautiful plane!

very nice! your going to really love the way the plane flies. that is one thing I haven't done yet is to add the graphics from PAU on the plane. It really adds that finish look to it. maybe that is something ill do this weekend. good job on the build and good luck on the maiden.

Santi R

So the programming is finally done.. Only took several hours and a lot of back ache.

I must say this was easy for me. People seem to dog on the post style horns, but I think they allow for more fine tuning. I was able to get all the Servos straight and free of binding quite easily. I like the post style horns more than the others!

The only issue I had was that the turnbuckles for the rudder are too short. I had to improvise. I'm using 4-40 all thread, but they will be sleeved with carbon tubing to get the strength back in them. I've done this on 40% planes before without issue. This is a small bump, but something to think about if you buy one. Also, for full rudder deflection the linkage is at an angle. I know this isn't optimal, but I want to be able to 3D the plane if I want to. If you don't plan on taking the rudder all the way to the elevators, you could have the linkage straight no problem.

From there I used my trusty EQ10 to match everything up. The only sub-trim I used was to center the arms on the Servos. Otherwise NONE. Not even in my radio. I've got this as clean as I possibly can in terms of programming. I'm very happy.

Still have to attach the tail wheel, balance and check incidence. I'm hoping my friend had an incidence checker as I do not. We'll see. These things might happen tomorrow or Friday.

Good news! Found a jig. Will probably run it tomorrow!

Not sure what you mean comparing an arf to a Carden. Is this not a Dalton? Or does Dalton's name mean nothing?? Why is Dalton's name on this if there is not comparison.

QUOTE=Brian yak dude;2581956]But you have to remember, this isn't a carden pro. It's not even a pro built kit. While I agree the wings could be a bit liter, I do not think they're excessively heavy. On the topic of being a few oz different, I'm not too worried about it. In a plane this size, a couple ounces (likely inboard like newbie said) is not going to make much difference. If I find that to be wrong in the air, I will correct it.

Comparing an ARF to a professionally built carden is apples to oranges. Nobody would compare a H9 Sukhoi to a pro-built Dalton.[/QUOTE]

I would be interested at 30 percent off if you guarantee that this plane weighs 42 pounds with a quad like your original add. Is this the case or just false advertisement.

Also does this come with a tinted canopy like the website picture ?

Or should I just wait for the V2 when Dalton and Paus firesale of V1 is over.

Originally Posted by Islandflyer

Only a few days. These will go fast, and it will be limited to items in stock.

Originally Posted by Slats!

Not sure what you mean comparing an arf to a Carden. Is this not a Dalton? Or does Dalton's name mean nothing?? Why is Dalton's name on this if there is not comparison.

There is no comparison to any ARF vs a kit, just like there is no comparison in the cost of a kit built dalton and the ARF. If you want a 100% perfectly built, light weight competition aircraft, a kit is your only option. Now, I will say, for $2300 you are getting an amazing deal and an airplane that is about 80-90% as good as a professionally done kite for a third the price!

What Herve and Tony have done with this airplane is incredible, they have bridged the gap between the guys who can afford the custom built kits and the guys who either don't have the time to build or the money to pay someone to build one for them.

I have two kit built Daltons at home, both of which cost over 6K to get to the same state as the ARF comes out of the box. I can honestly say that if something were to happen to either one, I would buy this ARF to replace it and I know I could be just as competitive with the ARF as I am with my custom built versions.

Then why is Daltons name on this plane if its no comparison? That does not make much sense.

All my buddies that have built Daltons have done so because of quality, legend and what they bring if this is nothing like that then why is this even considered to be a Dalton. That would be like buying a VW and saying it is an Audi but would that really mean it is an Audi?

If its no comparison than is Dalton just a sell out? Man I always wondered why Carden did not go this route but maybe this is why and I should just build my own?

All my friends kits have also been much lighter than what this seems to come out as. PAU said 42pds yet the builds seem more but I cannot get a confirmation on what it actually is.

I would think if its 50+ pounds on my DA 200 it would be like throwing $2400 in the garbage and I would just be better off building my own?

Tough call I don't have much time but hate wasting hard earned $$

Originally Posted by Mark Dennis

There is no comparison to any ARF vs a kit, just like there is no comparison in the cost of a kit built dalton and the ARF. If you want a 100% perfectly built, light weight competition aircraft, a kit is your only option. Now, I will say, for $2300 you are getting an amazing deal and an airplane that is about 80-90% as good as a professionally done kite for a third the price!

What Herve and Tony have done with this airplane is incredible, they have bridged the gap between the guys who can afford the custom built kits and the guys who either don't have the time to build or the money to pay someone to build one for them.

I have two kit built Daltons at home, both of which cost over 6K to get to the same state as the ARF comes out of the box. I can honestly say that if something were to happen to either one, I would buy this ARF to replace it and I know I could be just as competitive with the ARF as I am with my custom built versions.

Originally Posted by Slats!

Not sure what you mean comparing an arf to a Carden. Is this not a Dalton? Or does Dalton's name mean nothing?? Why is Dalton's name on this if there is not comparison.

QUOTE=Brian yak dude;2581956]But you have to remember, this isn't a carden pro. It's not even a pro built kit. While I agree the wings could be a bit liter, I do not think they're excessively heavy. On the topic of being a few oz different, I'm not too worried about it. In a plane this size, a couple ounces (likely inboard like newbie said) is not going to make much difference. If I find that to be wrong in the air, I will correct it.

Comparing an ARF to a professionally built carden is apples to oranges. Nobody would compare a H9 Sukhoi to a pro-built Dalton.

I knew given your unrelenting battle to bash everything you'd probably find your way here. It seems you've really gone out of your way (3 posts out of your way) to make sure you stirred up my thread. I don't much appreciate that, but I'm going to try and answer your questions as best I can.

ARF = ALMOST READY TO FLY. An ARF comes framed up, glued together and covered for convenient and swift assembly by the customer. This type of aircraft is for novice builders or those who do not have the time and ability to fully build a plane from plans and sticks. ARFs are a GREAT thing that allow people to get GREAT flying planes in the air quickly. Inherently when ANYTHING is mass produced, quality and precision can be expected to decrease somewhat. The design is a Dalton Extra 300ML (Huh, I wonder why it says Dalton on it? Maybe because if it didn't, Herve would have stolen the design? DOH!). What you're trying to do is compare a plane that a person with 20+ years of professional, skillful and time consuming building skills put together and a plane that 5 different Chinese people in a factory put together. Could you HONESTLY look me in the eyes and tell me they're going to be the same? If you can, you're either as ignorant as you make yourself out to be, or a bald faced liar. Either options are sad.

Originally Posted by Slats!

I would be interested at 30 percent off if you guarantee that this plane weighs 42 pounds with a quad like your original add. Is this the case or just false advertisement.

Also does this come with a tinted canopy like the website picture ?

Or should I just wait for the V2 when Dalton and Paus firesale of V1 is over.

There's no guaranteeing weight. The plane is OBVIOUSLY heavy. I happily displayed the entire bare airframe weight in the beginning of the thread. I suggest you read and make an informed decision. 30% off is a GREAT deal. As stated above, you're looking at $6,000 on the low end to put together a PRO Dalton or Carden. That's a fact. With that amount of money, you can expect a perfect airplane. For $720 off the original price, a buyer could justify getting what is quite obviously a very good airplane and tackle the really quite small issues. About the only thing I have seen people complain about is the weight. Taking weight out of an airplane is not brain science and for under $2000 for a DALTON is not asking too much at this point.

That leads me to my 2nd point here. Does anyone seem to care in the air? NO! Just about everyone that's owned one has been quite happy with the way it flies! There are multiple examples of high end IMAC planes coming in at 45+lbs. Nobody seems to complain. Could the plane use a little bit of a diet? Sure, but when it's in the air (weird, the place most planes seem to be) it doesn't seem to matter.

I believe 30% reflects a very responsible move by PAU. It's clear the airplane isn't "perfect". What ARF is? The plane all-in-all has some small, very manageable problems that any half decent builder could overcome just as I have. This constant bashing like this is the first ARF to have any issues has GOT TO STOP. At least it will on my thread.

Originally Posted by Slats!

Then why is Daltons name on this plane if its no comparison? That does not make much sense.

All my buddies that have built Daltons have done so because of quality, legend and what they bring if this is nothing like that then why is this even considered to be a Dalton. That would be like buying a VW and saying it is an Audi but would that really mean it is an Audi?

If its no comparison than is Dalton just a sell out? Man I always wondered why Carden did not go this route but maybe this is why and I should just build my own?

All my friends kits have also been much lighter than what this seems to come out as. PAU said 42pds yet the builds seem more but I cannot get a confirmation on what it actually is.

I would think if its 50+ pounds on my DA 200 it would be like throwing $2400 in the garbage and I would just be better off building my own?

Tough call I don't have much time but hate wasting hard earned $$

Uhh, maybe because it's a Dalton plane just like all your buddies but built in a factory? The design is Dalton. The plans came from Dalton, The specs and requirements came from Dalton. Do you think this is someone else's plane with Dalton written on the side?

Yes. People do buy Dalton kits because they want the quality that Tony has worked so hard to provide. With the quality comes a LARGE responsibility to the builder to determine just how far that quality will take him. A kit can be as good or bad as a builder makes it. An ARF doesn't work like that. When you give up building a plane by hand, you give up controlling the level of perfection you see from builders with thousands of hours of building under their belts. That's not to say the ARF shouldn't be high quality (IMO this Dalton is one of the highest quality ARFs I've ever set eyes on), but you CANNOT expect it to be built just as a pro builder would do. That expectation is grossly unrealistic.

You seem to like referencing your buddies. This makes me think.. Have you even owned one? Me thinks not! WHY are you bashing so heavily? Your buddies kits may be the same design, but even they were all meticulously built to the owners desires. One kit could be 40lbs with a DA 200 and one built by someone else could be 56lbs with a ZDZ 180. Would you blame Tony? No! You'd say that builder screwed up. (Wait, so does that mean the different builders build the plane differently too? WHAT?!) The amount of variance and possibility in kit built planes is endless. Again, comparing the same plane built on a table in a garage VS a factory in China is Apples to Oranges. Sorry. That's the reality.

What you choose to do with your time and money is entirely up to you. At this point, I would say don't buy one because I think you'd just hate it out of spite. You've used so much time and energy bashing PAU and Dalton over one plane you've never owned you probably could have already built one by now. If you have any more bashing to do, please keep it off my thread. Send me a PM if you're really that hell bent on making your opinion known to someone. I made this thread so people could follow along and enjoy what I believe is a very nice airplane. I intend upon enjoying it myself.

Good Day

Slats,
My name is on it because I designed it and I believe in its design. Yes there are some flaws that we will be working hard to correct on our next run of planes. The goal for myself and Herve was to bring a proven IMAC competion airplane to the market at a reduced cost of what the kit built version is. If you see me out at the field I invite anyone who would like to get a flight on the Dalton/ PAU arf to just ask. To my knowledge nobody has come back and said that their plane does not perform as advertised!
Have we all forgotten that Carden once did an arf with Hanger 9? Those were not perfect at first either. To my knowledge we never advertised that the production planes would be a certain weight. Only that the prototype weighed 39 lbs. None of these planes have come out over 50 lbs! When the prototype came in with a tinted canopy it was one of the first things that I insisted on being changed as a tinted canopy would never hold up during the summer months here in the southwest. I will work with Herve to get the website picture changed. It seems the biggest issue that people have with this plane is the final weight. It has been proven that it flies great and at the end of the day thats what matters to me, FLIGHT PERFORMANCE! I just got a production unit in myself this week and will be getting it together with a DA 200 engine. I plan on competing in a few IMAC's next year and as long as the plane flies the way I designed it to I will not care what it weighs.

Tony/Brian

Sorry to have stirred up the pot with this Slats fellow.

I am sure the plane will fly great at whatever weight it comes in at. I was just very surprised at how heavy the wings were and that they were almost 4 oz different. Seems that the factory could do a better job matching up like weight wings. Are the wings built up or foam core?

Just for clarity, my father and I built my Carden Pro. I spent a lot of time reading build threads and adapted many different techniques of others into my build. It was our first giant scale build but we had built many pattern planes over the years. The all up weight with a DA 200 on canisters is 37.5. Not bad for a non "pro" builder!

Again, sorry to cause this bashing to your thread, meant no disrespect.

Chuck Edwards

Originally Posted by eheliflyer

Tony/Brian

Sorry to have stirred up the pot with this Slats fellow.

I am sure the plane will fly great at whatever weight it comes in at. I was just very surprised at how heavy the wings were and that they were almost 4 oz different. Seems that the factory could do a better job matching up like weight wings. Are the wings built up or foam core?

Just for clarity, my father and I built my Carden Pro. I spent a lot of time reading build threads and adapted many different techniques of others into my build. It was our first giant scale build but we had built many pattern planes over the years. The all up weight with a DA 200 on canisters is 37.5. Not bad for a non "pro" builder!

Again, sorry to cause this bashing to your thread, meant no disrespect.

Chuck Edwards

Chuck I don't think you really stirred up the thread. Most of that came from Slats.

I agree with wings could be a little better matched, and I think that's something the factory is working on. The wings are sheeted foam core just like the kit. Although I do not know how they're produced, I think the factory *may have added too much carbon and glue into them resulting in the weight. That's just a guess on my end. I also do not know how much of the foam was removed inside the wing to save weight. That could be a factor.

Like we have said, no ARF or first production run will be perfect. I think Tony and Herve are working on that, but it takes time and money.

I appreciate your candor and willingness to be respectful. That speaks volumes about your character over the other who are simply here to make noise. While I'll admit that your 37lb Carden is impressive, it's still a kit that's been built on a bench. I can also honestly say for IMAC, I personally like a heavier plane. While I know that doesn't fit everyone's bill, it works for me.

Can I ask how you weighed your plane? I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it. I will probably try a couple different methods and compare.