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Old 04-04-2006, 03:23 PM
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trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

Tiltle explains it all guys..... Here's the deal, i currently own 6 gas engines. 4 D/A's and 2 ZDZ's.
I just ordered Amzoil Sabre professional oil. I want to see what your opinions were on using just this one oil on all these engines.
I guess i am trying to stop being a chemist having to mix different ratios and oil types for each engine! APITA!!
I understand how each mfr, recommends a certain mixture and oil, however this can get quite confusing. Seems by what i have read is that Amzoil seems to be the oil of choice for alot of flyers.
I have already ran in 1 D/A-50 last season and switched to Belray synthetic after running it in on Lawnboy.
I have a new zdz-80 (had a few engine issues NEW and recieved service) that is about ran in on 1 gallon of Penzoil air cooled.
a zdz-80 twin that was running in on honda hp(sticky stuff!) and is since being changed over to penzoil to finish her run-in.
I have a brand new D/A-150 in a 40% carden extra 260 that is in the covering process, so this engine will be running in-in the near future.
I have a brand new D/A-100 also awaiting run-in and her maiden flight as well.
I have a brand new D/A-50 awaiting run in and another maiden in a GP-Yak

Ok, now that shows what i have here is the goal.... i don't want (if possible) 2 or 3 seperate fuel containers for all these planes! It would be nice to have 1 oil and 1 gas can.... (in my case a Jersey Modeler pump/can combo)

Here's why i ask, I read an article in the may/June 2005 3-d flyer magazine by Jason Noll, entitled tuning your gas engine. He states in his article and i quote
"i do not recommend running lawn-boy-type oil to break in any performance type engine. it will create alot of carbon buildup on the top of the pistons,and this buildup will eventually rob the engine of performance. A clean engine is a good-running engine. The oil i recommend that everybody uses in their gas engines is Amzoil Sabre professional. This is a clean-burning oil that is great for your engine, and keeps the engine running a little cooler at the same time. I think it is best to run engines with a 100:1 mix (gas to oil) all the way from day one, untill you sell or crash the engine"

Now, I know some are going to say, hey just follow D/A's recomendation, or follow zdz's.... AND I TOTALLY AGREE, however, it sure seems that this would be a really nice way to just mix up a few gallons of Amzoil 100:1 and be done with it for all these planes, new engines, engines being run in, and engines that are finished with the break in process. Sure would simplify things ALOT!

What do you guys think??? I am in no way looking for a "this oil sux, this oil is better" thing going here but more of a "here is one nice universal mix" to make life eaisier

I know Jason Noll is a well respected pilot and i for one would value his opinion.... Not only because it would be what i would love to do, but seems like it is coming from a creditable source.... However going against a MFR's recomendation is still in the recess of my mind as not a good idea,

So that said, what cha think!?
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Old 04-04-2006, 03:54 PM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

I am in the same boat as you. I have a ZDZ80 and just bought the Chapman cap 580 with a 3W TOC 120 in it. What I did was wrote 3W and asked them if I could use my present oil mixture in the 3W motor. 3W said that was perfect. I run H1R fully synthetic motorcyle oil (40:1). I to didnt want to carry 2 cans to the field when I went. But I made sure with the manufacturer before I did it just so that it doesnt take away from any warranty with the motor. One thing you have to remember is you'll get a lot of people saying this motor is better and you need to run this oil. I feel you should always go with what the manufacturer recommends because guess what, they are the ones that built the motor and know what oils work well and which doesn't and most of all which ones will break the warranty stipulations. Hope that helps

Chris
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Old 04-04-2006, 04:21 PM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

Basically you are going to have to run the DA's with the oil and mix ratio needed for the ZDZ, but that is not a problem. Try what was previously suggested or Mobile syn at 40:1
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Old 04-04-2006, 04:25 PM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

Yeah, like i said the MFR recomendations obviously would be best.... But i was mostly curios about what you thought about Jason Noll's comment......
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Old 04-04-2006, 05:10 PM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

3-d---Most manufacturers seem to like Amsoil Saber pre-mix 100:1, except ZDZ. I have read reports that indicated running to lean of an oil mixture in the ZDZ will cause problems.

I do not own a ZDZ, so I run all my plane engines and weedies on Amsoil 100:1 mixed at 80:1 from the start. (or a little less) I just do not feel that any oil mixed at 100:1 is the best for any engine. IN FACT if you read the saber bottle it states for industrial use you can go as rich as 50:1 That is what the oil manufacturer says.
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Old 04-04-2006, 05:46 PM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

I run Bel-Ray H1R in my DA 150 at 50:1. All my other engines Zenoah, BME, and FPE get Bel-Ray MC1 at 50:1. I suppose I could use H1R in everything but I don't.

As far as what Jason said to each is own I quess but running lawn boy for only 5 galons like DA says is not going to carbon up the motor. What carbons up the motor is running it real rich which is bad, gas motors don't have to be run rich like glow motors do for break in. And if you want to get right down to it gas motors don't need broke in they get broke in while their in the air. Just my opinion on the matter.
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Old 04-04-2006, 05:48 PM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

Running 100:1 from the beginning won't hurt anything. It'll just take a couple years to fully break in the motor.
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Old 04-04-2006, 05:48 PM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

I have been running my DA150 on Penzoil air cooled frm day one. The first few gallons was mixed at 40:1 and then I went to 50:1. I was going to switch over to Amsoil after 15 gallons but when I sent the engine to Zipp for some work he commented how clean the engine was inside. I am really happy with the way the engine runs so I decided to stay with the Penzoil. The fact that the local Allparts store always has it in stock for 1.99 a pint is rally nice too. I would think that any engine that has had it's first few gallons run through it would be perfectly happy with Penzoil mixed at 50:1. I know that My DA150 sure is as well as my Dad's 100 and 50.


Shawn
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Old 04-04-2006, 06:09 PM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeeUm
Running 100:1 from the beginning won't hurt anything. It'll just take a couple years to fully break in the motor.
The only part on an engine that takes any time at all are the rings. The bearings are pretty much good to go.
I have found that after a few gallons of gas with any type of oil the rings are seated just fine and every thing else is good too.
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Old 04-04-2006, 06:44 PM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

ohhh welll... after doing a little research, looks like i'll have at least 2 or 3 fuel cans....
But i guess at least i'll be following directions!
I noticed ZDZ is recommending the Mobile 1 Racing2T for run-in and after....
Maybe i'll just use a mix of that in one can and Amzoil for the D/A's.....
Dohhh! forgot the Lawnboy for run-in on the 2 D/A's... oh, well back to 3 cans now!
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Old 04-04-2006, 10:52 PM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

Run 50:1, period!!! Doesn't matter if you use Amsoil, or any other oil. Sure the Ash-less offers a bit more protection during the first few critical engine runs. But that is all. I've broken in 2 brand new 3W 100/106's on 60:1 Honda Golden Spectro oil. It's a blended oil. I've used that for YEARS!!!! Not 1 little problem out of them!! I guess it is all in what you like to run.

Chris~
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Old 04-04-2006, 11:12 PM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

Lust as Chris said, just mix up one can of non synthetic 50:1 or even 40:1. This is not against any reccomendations to continue running a petro based oil after break in, just tune all your engines to run on it and fly out the season, by next year you will probably have them all broken in (more or less) then switch over to whatever monkey lube you perfer. I highly doubt that you will notice much difference in performance anyways, and think of the simplicity. Is it honestly practical to carry around 3 fuel jugs!!!! Don't loose no more sleep over this one, 50:1 in the whole bunch, tune em' fly em!
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Old 04-05-2006, 04:08 AM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

3D flyer just make sure if you do go to 100-1 that it is an oil specifically designed for that purpose(amsoil 100-1). I us Motul 800 at 50-1 in my DA 150 and will also be using it in my new DA50 when its run in. I used Motul 800 in my last ZDZ80 at 50-1 also. Many people think they are following manufacturers instructions and run at 100-1 but with oils that are designed for 40-1 purposes or 50-1 like the belrays. I think you would be fine running all your gassers at 50-1 on a top shelf oil such as Motul 800 or Belrays 50-1. JMO
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Old 04-05-2006, 07:11 AM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

For what its worth, before I went over to EVO engines , I was running ZDZ engines exclusively. After proper break in, I always ran Amsoil 100:1 mixed at 80:1 , never a problem, and ran beautifully. The same is excepted with all EVO's.

Roger
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Old 04-05-2006, 09:44 AM
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Re: trying to stay universal... ONE oil/mix for several engines. Suggestions please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by forgues research
For what its worth, before I went over to EVO engines , I was running ZDZ engines exclusively. After proper break in, I always ran Amsoil 100:1 mixed at 80:1 , never a problem, and ran beautifully. The same is excepted with all EVO's.

Roger
I do alot of surfing on this site and it continues to amaze me how your able to mention the fact that you sell the EVO line of engines. I think we all know that by now. Thanks for telling us repeatedly
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