i fly my planes at a club, and we take off and land on asphalt runway. the runway is running north - south.
my question:
what is the significance of an airplane, that no matter how much you try to make it just touch down, it will still bounce and lift off again?
i have decreased throw of elevators with triple rates = (landing/take off, 1= normal, 2= 3d)
this is on a 47 pound 40% 3w extra 330. never had landing gear break, or a stress fracture of fuselage LG plate area (as this was fortified). also, the engine will idle so that the forward movement from a stop is at most 5 mph, or less.
but if it comes in against little wind, even if it is windy, she will land and do little lift off again. what can i do to prevent this, besides getting WR disc brakes.


EDIT: FYI, this was an airplane issue, the airplane was tail heavy. This airplane is long gone, it broke apart during flight, and developed elevator flutter, that resulted in the tail ripping off during flight. the whole thing was caught on video, and is on You Tube. The airplane landed in a lake!

Idle it down. It should idle low enough to sit still on asphalt.

Slow your approach down a tad. You're landing too fast. It doesn't matter if the wheels are on the ground. If the wing is still generating enough lift to fly, it's going to want to fly. A slower approach, flare and hold the flare with the wheels just off the ground. Don't let off the elevator. As it tries to settle on the ground, keep adding elevator. Just don't pull too much or it balloons and you don't want to stall the wings more than inches from the runway.

Also, the key to better landings while still getting familiar with any new plane is touch and go's. On a new plane I'm trying to get a good feel for, I like to save the last several minutes of gas for approaches. Some touch and go's, some full stops with a taxi back and takeoff again. Practice!

Might try a landing mix with both ailrons deflecting up just a little . Spoilrons. I've gat a extra 40% that does the same thing. Try a lower approach so you don't gain speed desending and a slower approach crossing the threshold of the runway at aprox 10 feet and 1/4 throttle or less. But be careful to carry some throttle cause its hard to judge airspeed when the plane is coming almost striaght to you. Then pull the throttle back to low idle as soon as your sure you've made the run way. Get the plane down to 1-2 feet and hold the plane just inches above the runway until it settles down. Doing a prefect 3 point landing. On paved runway you may even want to cut the engine just before/after touch down.

The slow approach is the ticket or a CG change to nose heavier. Rutnbuc

Thank you all, good advice. i have done all this, i must have made 10 passes, each time, trying to slow her down more and more, also, after each pass, i would keep throttle, then decrease trim one click, and once i made it over runway, i would decrease throttle stick all the way down....still too fast.
the last two flights, i had to cut engine off, then she landed, but even then, she would balloon up. just a little, 1 foot or so.

Are you touching down in a three point attitude or tailwheel first? Might also want to practice 'slow flight', get really comfortable flying at touchdown speeds.

Originally Posted by orthobird

Thank you all, good advice. i have done all this, i must have made 10 passes, each time, trying to slow her down more and more, also, after each pass, i would keep throttle, then decrease trim one click, and once i made it over runway, i would decrease throttle stick all the way down....still too fast.
the last two flights, i had to cut engine off, then she landed, but even then, she would balloon up. just a little, 1 foot or so.

If ur halfing to kill the engine to make a smooth no bounce landing . Ur idle is set to high, try backing ur idle down some more. Then try to land and see if that works .

Hi ortho.

What prop are you using and what does your plane do in a stall?

at my field on one approach it has a high obstacle and slightly downhill. I couldn't get my idle down too low as it was still a little new and I was being cautious of dead sticks with too low an idle... I fly a 40% er cARF extra 260 and krill SU29.. the extra can be slippery if I'm not carefull with prop choice and thinking ahead especially with my favourite tree approach an zero head wind.

i fly with the same rates as your setup...

my only two options were to basically slow the plane down on the downwind leg, then on finals I'm basically holding full up elevator and controlling a steep decent all with throttle... blipping here and their very rapidly.. it's by no means a harrier landing but its right on the edge of a stall the whole way down. it takes some practice to get comfortable with this approach method but my plane just mushers down in a stall and we all have more than enough power to accelerate out of an issue. landings on grass are now 14 ft rollouts as opposed to a hundred

perhaps your prop just isn't a good " breaking" prop?

my suhkois cowl slows me down brilliantly for landings and not a problem with a mez 28.5x12s 3b prop. put that on the extra 260 and my landings are always hot from the tree approach. I tried a 2b mez 32x10 on the extra and wow...a great breaking difference for landings. obviously a little noiser...

A few guys have encouraged me to try side slip approaches but its too risky for me over the trees etc....

I hope you work something out mate!

On my previous plane I also had spoilerons mixed in (as mentioned above) but also with a little bit of down elevator (all on one switch). Would use this on landing and it settled in nicely. Might try that

I had to work this same problem out on a full scale home built about 30 years ago. So with everything you have tried so far most likely your AOA sitting on the gear is at the perfect angle that the airplane wants to keep flying even at very slow air speeds. You can either increase the AOA increasing drag and further slowing your platform. or decrease your AOA increasing speed but lowering the amount of available lift at any given airspeed.

Bob

Originally Posted by N726AC

Are you touching down in a three point attitude or tailwheel first? Might also want to practice 'slow flight', get really comfortable flying at touchdown speeds.

3 point.
i think tailwheel first would be in stall position for this bird at this speed. she weighs 47 pounds, and is pretty long, about 118 inches, and its is a WR CF tailwheel for the 50%

Originally Posted by all big scale

If ur halfing to kill the engine to make a smooth no bounce landing . Ur idle is set to high, try backing ur idle down some more. Then try to land and see if that works .

thanks Ed, i tried doing that as well, still too fast. the one thing is that i just changed props to a falcon prop. HMMMMM, that explains why i had to change needle settings after 1st flight. the new prop affected load on engine. i wonder if that is the problem. it is a falcon 32 x 10 ( i think)

Originally Posted by tackdog

Hi ortho.

What prop are you using and what does your plane do in a stall?

at my field on one approach it has a high obstacle and slightly downhill. I couldn't get my idle down too low as it was still a little new and I was being cautious of dead sticks with too low an idle... I fly a 40% er cARF extra 260 and krill SU29.. the extra can be slippery if I'm not carefull with prop choice and thinking ahead especially with my favourite tree approach an zero head wind.

i fly with the same rates as your setup...

my only two options were to basically slow the plane down on the downwind leg, then on finals I'm basically holding full up elevator and controlling a steep decent all with throttle... blipping here and their very rapidly.. it's by no means a harrier landing but its right on the edge of a stall the whole way down. it takes some practice to get comfortable with this approach method but my plane just mushers down in a stall and we all have more than enough power to accelerate out of an issue. landings on grass are now 14 ft rollouts as opposed to a hundred

perhaps your prop just isn't a good " breaking" prop?

my suhkois cowl slows me down brilliantly for landings and not a problem with a mez 28.5x12s 3b prop. put that on the extra 260 and my landings are always hot from the tree approach. I tried a 2b mez 32x10 on the extra and wow...a great breaking difference for landings. obviously a little noiser...

A few guys have encouraged me to try side slip approaches but its too risky for me over the trees etc....

I hope you work something out mate!

i think you are on to something. i had to forgot to mention that i changed props. this was for flights 16, 17, and 18. i am now using a Falcon prop 32 x 10.
i ordered a 30 x 13 W few days ago. let me put that one on and see what happens.
i will keep you updated.

Originally Posted by sensei

I had to work this same problem out on a full scale home built about 30 years ago. So with everything you have tried so far most likely your AOA sitting on the gear is at the perfect angle that the airplane wants to keep flying even at very slow air speeds. You can either increase the AOA increasing drag and further slowing your platform. or decrease your AOA increasing speed but lowering the amount of available lift at any given airspeed.

Bob

i think i understand what you are saying. for your 1st suggestion, meaning, trying to stall in when nearly off the ground

and the second is to make approach slower by coming in from further distance at lower altitude with lower aoa
i think i can picture it. i will try this as well.
thank you