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Old 05-29-2008, 06:21 AM
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DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

I have purchased a Land and Sea dyno for small motors 1-60 hp.
Some of you may know me from the 50% extra 300 thread I have on FG.
If you are familar with the thread you know I ask peoples opinions and then from all the opinions we make conclusions and implement them into something great.
I wanted to start a new thread on this dyno and see if there is interest in doing the same thing with the dyno. I know there is alot of knowledge out there and it would be great to put it together for our use.

I just purchased this so it is not up and running yet but it will be soon.

What do you think?
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Old 05-29-2008, 06:31 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

I took this from my other thread to save rewriting it.
Building these motors in not in the picture right now. For those of you who do not know me...I am a h.p. junkie. I started building motors for go karts and lawn mowers at the age of 11 with my neighbor Junior Cool. I built my first car engine at the age of 15...in a abandoned chicken coop.(the motor powered my first car a 1967 Camaro) by the time I was 23 I was street racing a Blown alcohol BB chevy vega (homebuilt) on the street. I took 2 years of vocational training in auto repair for my last two years of high school. After high school I pursued a career in engine rebuilding from forklifts to racing engines. I loved cylinder heads and thats where I spent alot of my time, hundreds of countless hrs porting heads and manifolds (by hand) My last few years in racing 10.5 tire cars was spent learning about turbocharging and screw blowers with electronic and mechanichal fuel injection.
That leads me up to today. I am to old and out of shape to race cars anymore and I have survived four close calls with death (plus the cost to be a competitive heads up racer is unreal).

I have always had a fascination with airplanes. I have thought many times about making more power with the little two strokes but I let it go. Now I am on a mission to make more reliable power with these motors. I plan on making pipes (carbon) for my own personal airplanes at first. I will start with the ZDZ 210 and then the 275.
There is alot of unknowns for me but I am deep in learning all I can get my hands on. I have found there are very few (if any) who actually have accurate reliable data on these airplane motors(especially in th air). I purchased a Eagle Tree system at toledo and now that I can see what is happening to the engine in the air I am convinced I can make more reliable power and not hurt parts in the air. I will start with the port mapping and building new pipes to make hp and torque in the rpm range that I see in the air with a particular prop and plane combination. I feel like this is the area that I can make the most improvements in my own airplanes. I will not make many changes to the porting that is already done at first( most manufactures have alot more knowledge about the ports than most of us mere mortals will ever know). After that I am considering alcohol and Nitro conversions.
Last but not least I would like to work on efi for our applications.

A little about the dyno...This is a Land and Sea water brake dyno. It has a 7" water brake rated for 1-60 hp (depending on the rpm) it has 2000 pro software which has every option available. This unit has computer controlled load control (which eliminates human error) and a built in weather station for repeatable real world numbers and fair testing. It will run the pull itself with precise rpm control that can be programed, then printed out for comparison later.
There is much much more it can do we will discuss later.
I will start a new thread for the dyno. I would love to get people involved in the dyno like we did this thread. Much knowledge is out there.
I may sell dyno time in the future once I know more about it.
Lets face it we are all hp junkies (its a man thing) I am sure much interest will be stirred with this.
To me learning is living. and I am living.

Let me know if your interested in this.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:29 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Mike,

I think you hit on a area of the Hobby not explored allot. In the Auto Business, we use DYNO's every day, very useful data can be attained. I'm subscribed!
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:36 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Did I miss anything ????


Mark you coming to butcher-fest ???? I Need to talk to you about something ?

Josh
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:46 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

sort of a dumb question. how are you going to start it and how to cool it.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:48 AM
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increasing thrust........
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Very cool, Mike. Where did this dyno come from? Is it something the kart guys use or what?

I'm quite interested in this, too. In fact when I taught at NC State, we built a dyno for glow motors that used a variable pitch prop mechanism for variable loading. We got some decent power and torque curves from it. But I've always wanted to have "real" power curves for larger gas motors so that I can better design props to match them.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:57 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifly3d View Post
Did I miss anything ????


Mark you coming to butcher-fest ???? I Need to talk to you about something ?

Josh
Yea I'm going up Friday and will be there before lunch time , see ya up there .
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:57 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

This is going to be great mike! Now you can get the real tq/hp curves to match the load you need with the pipe lengths. I'm sure with Mr. Vess's help, you can now optimize the prop load with the tq of the motor for a given RPM.

I think you are right Mark... better get the mill warmed up...
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:57 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Nice thread!!!

Cooling is quite simple ,a blower and a duct , but starting and conecting the crankshaft would require any type of gear and electric starter ,luckily donīt need to be light so a lot of available parts can be made to fit.
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:01 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Mike, great idea, i'm onboard for the haul as well...don
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:05 AM
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Back to the Basics!
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!



I'm Subscribed!
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:07 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Wouldn't a dyno only provide you with one parrameter? Max rpm power? It seams a prop load would never be duplicated by a dyno. It would tell you rpm's per throttle setting, but then you'd have to do the math and translate it to prop speeds. Which you could easily do by slapping a prop on and taching it. Then there's the problem of engines with more thrust than weight, in a flying condition the prop never loads the same as when held steady on the ground.
But since you are a HP junky with a really cool toy I'll just have to be jealous and eagerly wait for some results.
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:37 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

It will do much more than just max HP/TQ. The dyno is equiped with a water brake, meaning that you can load the engine as much or as little as you want at different RPM's. I'm sure mike will use the eagle tree to show EGT, and CHT to adjust the fuel/air as well.

Unfortunately, dyno's in the performance car market have be come more of a novelty to see how Max HP/TQ you are making... rather than looking at what information for testing they provide.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:03 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Very cool. I thought I was the only guy with a dyno for these motors. I have a Stuska water brake and it uses land and sea software and I also have a home built inertia dyno. I raced karts on a national level winning 2 championships to boot in WKA. I have a zillion hours running the dyno from 2 hp Cadet motors to 75 HP unlimited 150cc rotary motors on nitro/alky. I can tell you pretty much every snag you will run into. When I built the inertia dyno, I bought DynoMite software to use. I really like the brake dyno for clutches and for tuning in mid range under load from off idle to wide open. I think you will find this dyno a wonderful tool, and fun to play with. Personally, I never use the brake dyno anymore. I only use the inertia dyno for the aircraft motors. I had a guy make me a program that I simulate different props with very good accuracy. I just took data with each prop in the air, and I correct the numbers on the dyno to match what I found in the air, and then I do a few pulls to back it up. I can tell you what prop pulls harder at what rpm. For example, a Skorepa prop I have pulls rediculously hard at idle-3,200 rpms. But that is not quite useful to me. 4500 now, and we're talking. I have a header that I made that with a KS can picked up 1/2 horse pretty much across the band. It took weeks to make them though, that's the down side. This is with a DA-100. I would really like to start working for some manf. in both exhaust and engines. As for cooling, you will need to build a sheet of plywood with a slot in it to go over the crank. Then, drill 2 large holes and go buy some dryer ducting and then do the same for a nice hi output electric squirrel cage fan. So, the fan/hose/plate are all connected. With any luck, I should have it automated with the throttle to simulate hovering and pulling out of hover, as well as rolling circles and so forth. I have a fuel injected setup that does run and operate, but I am having throttle position sensor issues. I would love to get that running well and see where it goes! Good luck.

PS- If you are sick like me, you will end up buying a flow bench for use. I can tell you for sure that a flow bench works with a dyno. A lot of guys swear by only one, but they work together...
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:13 AM
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Re: DYNO, Lets build some H.P. together!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMatt View Post
It will do much more than just max HP/TQ. The dyno is equiped with a water brake, meaning that you can load the engine as much or as little as you want at different RPM's. I'm sure mike will use the eagle tree to show EGT, and CHT to adjust the fuel/air as well.

Unfortunately, dyno's in the performance car market have be come more of a novelty to see how Max HP/TQ you are making... rather than looking at what information for testing they provide.
Mill and lathe are warmed up and ready to go , we will be making all kind of kool toys !
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